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Bell to be franchise tagged, per Rapoport

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by uncblue012, Mar 5, 2018.

  1. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Omg this is funny another plug and play cause just anybody can come in here and produce. here is a nice stat for all the Bell haters:

    Of his 3.9 yards per rushing attempt in 2017, 2.6 yards per carry have come after contact, and his 33 missed tackles are the second-most at the position behind Kansas City Chiefs rookie Kareem Hunt (48). His carries also account for a league-high 80.8 percent of his team’s total; Hunt is second at 69.2 percent

    In addition to his ability to pound it on the ground, Bell has caught 61 of 76 targets for 396 yards. The passing game in Pittsburgh revolves around star receiver Antonio Brown (32.1 percent of team targets, second-most in the NFL), but Bell is second on the team with 19.3 percent of passes thrown his way by Roethlisberger. And among running backs, no one has been asked to run more routes in 2017 than Bell.

    As a result, Bell has been responsible for almost a quarter of Pittsburgh’s receptions. That ranks him 15th in the league, including wide receivers and tight ends, and is a higher rate than any of the three running backs in the MVP peer group. Bell also garners 13.2 percent of the team’s receiving yards, more than Peterson and Alexander had in their MVP seasons.
     
  2. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    A) I dont hate Bell. Some of us just feel that the money can be better spent elsewhere. I can go either way with it. Im tired of his mouth, tired of his greed but I recognize how great a talent he is. So I wont be disappointed if he stays on the team at all (longterm). I was one of the few that was beating the drum to draft this guy, been a big supporter but his act is wearing thin. You dont feel that way, thats fine.

    B) Don't know how many people are saying we can replace Bells production but you dont have to. The two teams in the SB last year didnt have anyone close to Bell as a RB. Also, their wins and loses doesnt vary too much if at all with or without Bell in the lineup. All you have to do is look up the games where hes been injured. The playoff game against NE where he went down early was a big blow but Im talking about when they know he isnt playing and can game plan for his absence. He's had two season ending injuries so the data is there.
     
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  3. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Here is the thing although I keep pounding the drum for Bell I am not his biggest fan. As a matter of fact I hate his running style, I have always taught my kids to hit the hole hard so Bell's style goes all against that. When I watch the games with my kids they laugh at be cause I am always taking about that. The rapping thing and the drug thing drive me crazy as well. But I look at his production and maybe more important the effect he has on others and know that it is just more than his numbers that make him valuable.

    Now as for these 2 teams in the payoff with a RB by committee, on has the GOAT and both have defense's that can come up with stops...Just not in the SB :smiley1:. I am just as big of a Ben fan as anyone but he can't be the guy Brady is that is just that simple. We try to let Ben lead the team and he is all over the place but when you throw in Bell and AB he is a different guy, these guys make each other better.

    Blast you know I was against the Conner pick when we drafted him he don't fit this system as a lead back. We need to draft a guy last year so we wouldn't have been in this position now. It isn't that I want Bell it is more that as much of our offense Bell is we don't have sure fire answers as a replacement. And with Ben being so close maybe 2 good years left we can't IMO waste a year finding a replacement.

    My whole point to my last post was so many here think we can replace Bell at 1/2 the price. Well you can as far as salary but we don't know if we can on the field and the fact that we don't know that and we know what we have with Bell is why I want Bell back this year, if they sign him long term I would be fine with as well. The other part is people here think that money can be spent elsewhere on our bigger needs. Well I have proven over and over again that by cutting a lot of the dead weight we can come up with enough money to sign said players to fix our defensive needs. So if we have the money and Bell is that big of our offense the only reason people don't want him back is pure hate of him and they are using any excuse not to keep him money, needs, injury and off field stuff. JMO. :thumbs_up:
     
  4. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Thats not true at all. First of all, just because you stayed at the Holiday Inn doesnt make you a capologist :lolol:

    You're being very liberal with all the cuts/restructures you made. I guarantee you they dont do all that. AND, even if they did, still doesnt give them the flexibility to do what I and others are talking about. They could take that 14 million and go get a top flight safety. Now, they dont ever engage in FA that way but they could and that is mine and everyone elses point by not bringing Bell back.

    Moot now anyway, they put the tag on him. Bell will sign it.
     
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  5. FootballAnalyst98

    FootballAnalyst98 Well-Known Member

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    You are correct on some points. Ben definitely isn't of the same elk as a Rodgers, Montana, Brady, manning etc... but he's just a level below. The part of your argument that fails in that regard is Ben won 2 rings with above average offensive talent but certainly not elite like this group but he had an elite defense. My point in that is, if we flipped the script and had the level of talent we have on offense and put it on defense and have average offensive talent with Ben can we win? The answer is yes. So therefore that's why the whole bell thing is dicey. If Ben never won anything this would be a no brainer. But since he has paying bell all that money and having a Sub par defense has gotten the ateelra where?
     
  6. PWP

    PWP Well-Known Member

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    It has turned this Team into a stat maker and not much else . We have went soft on Offense and Defense .Bell's running style is a bit soft as well if you ask me. We are now a good regular season Team with no real character to call on come post season. No playoff Team or Coach has any real fear for our Defense . No playoff Team or Coach really fears Bell wearing down their Defense and grinding out a tough win.

    The bottom line is a good Coach with a good scheme to contain Brown has a excellent chance of beating this Team. Ben is not a true student of the game he doesn't adjust well during the game and neither do our Coaches . I am a true fan , but this team when it comes right down to it is soft ,sof capital T sofT as Ray told Claude.Such is LIFE.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
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  7. MeanJoeBlue

    MeanJoeBlue Well-Known Member

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    You are right that it would be bad for kids to imitate Bell, but if they could actually do what Bell does, that would be different. Bell isn't waiting passively. Bell is playing a chess match, constantly taking small steps left and right, to position the defenders where Bell's blockers will have an advantage. He has great awareness of how long he can wait before committing to a move.

    I can only speak for myself. No way they get 100% Bell at half price. (I use a similar argument when someone thinks that a starter-level QB would be willing to rot on the bench behind BB, at Landry's salary.)

    The question is, could they get 80-90% of Bell at (less than) half-price? And would that be still be enough for the offense to operate smoothly? In my opinion, yes. (Or at least, the gains from money spent on the defensive side are going to be greater than the loss of replacing Bell.)
     
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  8. steelers5859

    steelers5859 Well-Known Member

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    If I was the steelers organization, I have until July 15 to possibly find Bell's replacement. Either through the draft or free agency or a combination of both. If I fine someone in free agency, I would sign him so he is here before OTAs and be an integral part of the preseason. Depending how they play and look during the preseason that would be my determination if I keep Bell.

    Bell is not going to be around during this period, so this gives me time to look at potential players who could fill the void. I know no one will bring what Bell brings to the table but we did find Deangelo Willams and if it was not for his age catching up to him, he would have been sufficient.

    I am a "team first" type person. I would rather us be competitive year in and year out then pay someone a boat load of money just for a shot this year. I want us to have a shot every year.

    All that being said, if i find a suitable replacement or a combination of two players through preseason, I would wait until the last possible minute and rescind the tag right before he signs it. What's good for the goose.............well, you know the rest.

    Now, all this would be moot if we come to a reasonable long-term deal that doesn't tie us up for years after Bell is not productive and our team suffers.
     
  9. SteelerGlenn

    SteelerGlenn

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    What if we sign someone and Bell signs the tag before we can rescind it?
     
  10. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    I may be a little off on my stats but so far I am close to being on Mitchell is gone and so is Gay they are getting closer. Your right on the 14 mil on a top safety but 2 things, first now that Joyner is tagged who taked his spot as the top guy, Vacarro? Second you know as well as I do the Steelers never go after a top flight anything in FA. Going by the numbers others have sign in the past and the "second" tier FA's I feel I am not far off with a 4/25 deal of a S and ILB. jmo, time will tell :thumbs_up:
     
  11. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    I agree Ben is at the next level then the guys you listed and that is not a knock on Ben. I really understand where you are coming from in all your posts about how signing Bell is dicey and how we need to improve the D. The thing I have a problem with is we have 9 starters coming back weather we like it or not. We only need 2 guys and I am pretty sure the draft will produce one of them, maybe not at the very start of the season but not long after. I also feel we will sign a guy at each position, like I talked about. Now where you and I disagree is I feel like this D has talent with the guys we have, we need the coaching to be better. Now I also feel that letting Mitchell go is already making this D better. I understand you want that special guy but it is very hard to get them. I am very hopeful we find that guy is this years draft, but if our coaching don't get better on that side of the ball will it really matter?
     
  12. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    I get what your saying but what I mean is as a kid I was taught to hit the hole hard, from pee wee to HS. Then as I coached my kids I taught the same thing, what Bell is doing works for him and my be the direction the position is going. Look and see other young backs are now running like that but to an old school guy like me it still drives me nuts, lol :smiley1:

    The problem with replacing Bell is now you are doing it with 2 or more guys. You no longer have the surprise to the defense like when Bell is in there lined up in the back field then slitting out. He is dangerous as heck in both spots and the D has to account for him as a top weapon. Where as if you bring in a replacement and he is a pass catcher then the D know which way we are leaning and vise versa with a running RB. There are so many advantages to Bell that people really just don't get. His flexibility, his pass blocking, his connection with Ben, the value of him just being on the field helping players like Juju see less coverage. The downside to Bell is yeah his greed but let's see if we work a deal and if not I hope like heck we draft a RB that fits this system, sorry Conner isn't that guy.
     
  13. FootballAnalyst98

    FootballAnalyst98 Well-Known Member

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    Does this defense have some talent? Yes. But it would take a great coaching job to maximize this group' potential. That's harder to come by imo then getting a great player. There's more great players than their are bill belichicks..
     
  14. steelers5859

    steelers5859 Well-Known Member

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    That could happen, but if we sign some else they can rescind the offer and he becomes a free agent just before the opening game.

    Bell has made it clear that he won’t be around during the summer and a repeat performance of last year’s off season. He sign his contract a week before the season opener and it took several games before he looked like himself.

    If we find the right player or players they could rescind the offer during preseason.
     
  15. SteelerGlenn

    SteelerGlenn

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    What I'm saying is we'd be stuck with both. We can't rescind the tag once he signs it right?
     
  16. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Well I don't think we need a great coach I think we need a coach to play to our talent, also getting rid of players who plain out right can't play(Mitchell and Gay) and replacing Shazier will be a big step in fixing this D. I know your not a Heyward fan but he is very good. You don't get to be all pro by not being very good. Haden is very good as well, I believe Tuitt was playing hurt cause when he was healthy he was a beast. Watt is on the verge of being very good but hard to tell after just one year. Two guys that I believe will benefit from Mitchell being gone are Burns and Davis. I believe both these guys are good and just playing in a system that don't fit them, Davis has to clean up his tackling. I just don't think this D is as bad as many think and imo 2 avg-good players can help this but coaching needs to play a roll as well.
     
  17. steelers5859

    steelers5859 Well-Known Member

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    Im not sure. Good question.

    But if we draft a running back, Bell might see the writing on the wall and sign the long term deal, or come in earlier, sign his tag and be part of the off season program.

    Likely,he’ll wait to possible last minute and fine himself searching for a team in September.
     
  18. jeh1856

    jeh1856

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    Since we would know we were signing someone before Bell knew, I would think we would do the signing and rescinding at the same time?
     
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  19. FootballAnalyst98

    FootballAnalyst98 Well-Known Member

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    Of you look at heyward's stats majority of the came against the browns, colts, packers with no arod, etc... That's why I feel he was overrated. Not saying he's trash but I'm not a fan of him as some elite defensive guy. Nice player but nothing more. And I've never seen some average coach make decent talent look great. I've only seen great coaches do that.
     
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  20. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    I agree on Heyward. Tuitt and Heyward are average DEs, and nowhere near as good and consistent as we had in the past with Keisel and Smith.
     
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  21. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Well I get what your saying however the other 2 teams in our division had to play the Clowns and other teams we did why didn't they put up them numbers? The Cheats have had a crappy division year after year but nobody talks about that you know what I mean? You can't change the cards, you play the hand your dealt, it is what it is. You feel Heyward is overrated that is cool it is your opinion but when the guy makes all pro there are a lot of there people, NFL people who think different.

    As for the whole coaching thing I kinda agree however a prime example of a bad coach winning on a great team is Barry effin Switzer....yeah hate to bring that name up...bad memories there. Also take Mcdanials he was great with the Cheats and stunk in Denver. I think you have to have good coaches and good players, more the players than the coaches imo. I really believe you will see a different D just from the release of Mitchell, add in a fa S and ILB I think we could be pretty good again. I also believe getting a rookie in them spots to develop is going to be key as well., we are not far off.
     
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  22. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    The thing about Barry is he had a 6-10 record after 4 seasons. A bad coach will be exposed.

    I agree about Tuitt, he was definitely playing injured.

    Heyward is great, dont know what people are watching. He gets double teamed a lot. You dont double team a player that is average.
     
  23. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    He was non-existent in the playoff game vs. Jaguars and I didn't recall seeing him double teamed that much. Jags O-line won the battle in the trenches by a long shot.
     
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  24. FootballAnalyst98

    FootballAnalyst98 Well-Known Member

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    Um an old t suggs put up 11 sacks this yr lol. And this team is no where near that cowboys team of the 90s. Anyone could have won with them and Barry switzer had deion who was just icing on a already made cake. I clearly stated I've never seen an average coach win with ABOVE AVERAGE TALENT. The cowboys had GREAT DEFENSIVE TALENT. This team does not. And the cheats do have a crappy division but that doesn't get mentioned because they have recently won rings and been to multiple sbs. We have not in recent years. And heyward is overrated if you think he's a elite guy. He's a good player but not great.
     
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  25. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Need to watch it again then, coaches film, you dont see **** on TV to make an informed analysis.

    I did a break down on this game, Hewyard had nothing to do with this loss. And he was double teamed. The plays that he had a lineman on him straight up, he pushed them into the backfield. A lot of the plays went away from Hewyard anyway.

    The culprits for that loss are in here:

    http://thesteelersfans.com/forums/threads/red-zone-nightmare-vs-jax.19115/

    Edit: I agree that Jax line one the battle of the trenches.
     

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