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Why Tomlin isn't the problem...

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by steelersfan35, Dec 23, 2018.

  1. steelersfan35

    steelersfan35 Well-Known Member

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    Why blame Tomlin when Juju made only one major mistake in his career so far? Now, I know that the fake punt was an iffy decision, but Payton had no choice but to go for it on 4th & 2. However, he still had the choice to trust in his defense by settling for the field goal with all 3 timeouts after the 2 minute warning.

    To support my argument, we only gave up 10 points last week, but only scored 17 against them? I think our main problem is playing consistency. At one point, we were 7-2-1 and now, we're 8-6-1. What happened ever since the Jaguars game? Oh yeah, the PLAYERS made costly mistakes and missed field goals. Furthermore, they'll always be bad/missed calls, as the referees make "mistakes" as well.

    You see, the Steelers won the Super Bowl with Tomlin because of a well-rounded team. They almost beat the Packers because of the same reason. Maybe it's the way we draft or sign free agents? Also, Tomlin isn't in control of who we draft or sign, it's all management.

    On an extra note, Andy Reid & Marvin Lewis are still coaching when they had little to no success in the playoffs? Yet, Tomlin lead the Steelers to the playoffs since 2013 & everyone blames the coaching staff after every single loss? Now, I hate to sound rude on here, but bandwagon much? And how long would it take for the players to adjust to a new head coach/coordinator?

    Overall, NFL coaches aren't perfect, all they need is good players/coordinators and then they'll be set to win and have success.
     
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  2. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Soooooo.....cheerleader?
     
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  3. 86WardsWay

    86WardsWay Well-Known Member

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    :popcorn:
     
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  4. KnoxVegasSteel

    KnoxVegasSteel Well-Known Member

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    Not this sh!t again Mike. get off the computer and go to bed, your season is over.
     
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  5. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    When you start 7-2-1 and shooting for a bye, and fall to 8-6-1 and needing help to get into the playoffs, and that slide includes a blown 16 point lead at home and a loss in Oakland, there’s dysfunction. The head coach is responsible for the overall product. He’s the leader. He has to make sure that the team is ready to play, and doesn’t go into a key game “sleepwalking” (a quote from one of our players after the Oakland game). He’s the guy responsible for making sure the coordinators game plan to attack our opponents’ weaknesses and plan to counter their strengths, and that we don’t just “do what we do” like we pretty much did until the New England game. He’s responsible for in-game decisions and management of the clock.

    It’s interesting how many analysts have commented on how the coverage scheme against the Pats had Tomlin’s fingerprints on it. Well, the LA collapse and the joke of a performance in Oakland (and the debacle in the playoffs vs the Jags last year after Tomlin thumped his chest about a Steelers vs Pats AFCCG rematch) also have his fingerprints on it.

    The whole “players play and coaches coach” argument is a woeful oversimplification. NFL head coaches have overall responsibility for having the team positioned to win EVERY week. He leads the development of an integrated game plan. He ensures that the position coaches are not only teaching and reinforcing fundamentals, but also preparing the players for the next opponent’s specific tendencies. He stays in tune with the psyche of the team, and makes sure they’re confident without being overconfident (a big issue for him IMO). If the head coach wasn’t important, he wouldn’t be the highest paid non-player on the field. The two most important positions on an NFL team are QB and head coach. That’s why the Pats have just won their 10th straight division title, and why they have literally been to half of the SBs played since the pairing of B&B.

    There are things that I love about Tomlin as a head coach. He is a motivator of men. When we were 4-5 a few years back, he did an incredible job keeping the team together on a 9 game winning streak. That doesn’t happen in today’s NFL without the head coach pulling the right strings in getting the team to believe in itself and focus on getting the job done one week at a time. He also had the team in a similar state of mind for the NE game, and for yesterday’s game. I believe that we win yesterday if not for piss poor officiating.

    The problem is in how we get into the situations where we have the kind of must-win games that we’ve had the past two weeks. This team consistently reeks of inconsistency against mediocre teams, and consistently beats itself through a lack of fundamentals and situational awareness (i.e. we never seem to have that high football IQ in enough players). In-game management is usually subpar, although Tomlin did effectively use his timeouts on the last NO drive, so there’s that I guess.

    So while I’ll give him kudos for having the team ready to play, and weathering a 10 point halftime sandwich to have the game in our control late, I also think he’s the person most responsible for the yesterday being a must-win game in the first place. The Denver game should have given him what he needed to get the team’s head in the right place for a stretch run. Losing 2 straight after that is inexcusable.

    It’s time for a change.
     
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  6. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    :applaud:
     
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  7. Jay31

    Jay31 Well-Known Member

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    Mike Tomlin definitely deserves some blame for the Steelers inconsistent play this season. With that being said, I really like Mike. And I highly doubt he will be fired. The Steelers will be making a huge mistake firing him. A lot of coaches would love to have Mike Tomlin's resume. And I don't want to hear the typical "If the Steelers had a different coach, they would have had 2 or more Super Bowls instead of 1". Anyone that thinks like that are not being logical. How would anyone know what type of success the Steelers would have with another coach? A lot of fans are too emotional and don't think before they talk or post stuff online. People need to think more.
     
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  8. bnasty23

    bnasty23 Well-Known Member

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    I wish the Mod, would make a link just for the true Pittsburgh fans that are better coaches than the ones making millions of dollars. I think the head coaches should be fine for Ben throwing ints, Boswell missing 30-39 yds fg, (h*** all the basher on here could make them at there desk), Ridley and JuJu fumble inside saints territory. Oh please make a thread for the ones that say the team was not prepared cause losing by 3 to 7 points and avg def. And two turnovers was the coach fault. If you ask me all the coaches that did not make the playoffs should be MVP cause they called plays that won games, but the games the coaches played in and miss fg, fumble, and didn't score on every drive should be fired. One day some fans will wake up and realized that professional football is a team sport. When players do their job and not fumble, miss fg you win period. Even at your job if two people fail to do what is required it make your job harder, so do that make you incompetent.....no
     
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  9. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Great post by Steel Elvis. The problem is we all know that Tomlin isn't going anywhere. That being said Butler needs to go. This team is built to win right now. To me it's SB or bust for Tomlin next year. I don't have the biggest problem with giving him one more year to get it done. The way this team is currently constructed Tomlins replacement would have to be in the same mold of a players coach. I don't think the offensive side of the ball especially with Ben could handle a disciplinarian type. That is exactly the coach I would want to replace Tomlin when the time comes. To try and bring that type in now would probably be a disaster for a team who's success rests so much on Ben. That's the biggest reason I don't think the time is right and Tomlin should get a ultimatum for next year.

    Now back to Butler.....buh bye. His time has come without question. The issues with the D are well known there's no need to go into detail. I know it's not a popular opinion and I know there are actually a couple who actually agree but I wouldn't mind bringing in Rex Ryan short term to try and coax a better performance out of this D. I think he is enough players coach and Xs and Os to be a perfect fit. He has HC and DC experience that would allow Tomlin to let Rex do his thing while Tomlin concentrates on all the other areas of this team that need immediate attention. Those are well known as well. The only other candidate I can think of that would work well short term would be Gregg Williams if Cleveland decides to part with him.
    Either guy I feel would inject some life back into this defense. We all agree Butler needs to go. I just don't think it makes much sense to try to bring in someone long term to coach the D. Not when there very well be a entire regime change sooner than later.....FKBI and BIRRI.....
     
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  10. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    How would we know we wouldn't :shrug: You see now that works. You should think more....
     
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  11. Jay31

    Jay31 Well-Known Member

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    ????????
     
  12. troybellringer55

    troybellringer55 Well-Known Member

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    Mike Tomlin would be employed almost immediately as a head coach, if fired by the Steelers.

    They have drafted horribly on defense, the only good LB’s they drafted that were good were Shazier and Watt.

    Too many bust Cornerbacks.

    Does it fall on Colbert? The scouting? Haden I like, but he’s getting older and is often injury prone.

    I think this was one of Tomlin’s worst coaching years this year. Made lots of bad decisions at key times. He didn’t right the ship when needed. Sorry but when you lose back to back close games you got to beat a two win team at all costs.

    But, believe me. Tomlin would be hired quickly if let go. It would also surprise me if the Steelers made that move. They are always about consistency and staying the course and are patient as there is, in ownership.
    Let’s face it, the last coach that was actually fired was back in 1968-69.

    Cowher has terrible years 98,99,2000 and he was kept. I can remember fans wanting the chin fired. It was all he chokes in big games, now we can’t win. Etc. etc.
     
  13. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    What's so confusing? The same way you are saying people aren't thinking when they say we could have more SBs. How do you know we wouldn't? It's both speculation and no proof either opinion.
     
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  14. Trafalgar

    Trafalgar Well-Known Member

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    This is his 12th season, he should be an NFL master by now, yet he can't even manage a game. He's just lucky he's been hired by a team that doesn't fiore HC's.

    Tell me what he brings to the table specifically apart from stupifying cliches?
     
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  15. biggbunch68

    biggbunch68

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    3 offensive cord 2 defensive cord , since Tomlin has been here same results.. Yea i think Tomlin IS the problem
     
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  16. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    We all know he's not going anywhere but even if he is hired immediately good for him. You don't let that worry dictate your decision making. If ownership determines he may no longer be the right man for this job then they should make a change. Your 100% right he did a terrible job this year with his motivating and his decision making. He also has a major say in who we draft so he shares the blame in that department as well. Like I said we know he's not going anywhere just yet but that seat better be on fire....
     
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  17. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    So, leadership means nothing. The head coach is just there to be a guy for the camera to show on the sidelines. He has no role in managing the team’s preparation, not only for the game, but also for the season. Got it. :thumbs_up:
     
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  18. troybellringer55

    troybellringer55 Well-Known Member

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    Well Marvin Lewis has been employed for 15 seasons is a .520 win percentage and has an 0-7 playoff record and has yet to be let go. So I’m guessing he should be an NFL master now too?
    You could also bring up guys like Andy Reid in a similar boat.
    Marty Schotenheimer another guy from the past.

    Does Tomlin need to be better absolutely. Do players need to play better for sure. Does scouting and drafting need improvements yes. Collectively the organization needs improvement. But I doubt this will lead to a Tomlin firing.
     
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  19. bnasty23

    bnasty23 Well-Known Member

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    A team that has never had a losing record and a team that not out of the playoffs yet. Now I ask what coach would you like the Chin who had three losing season in a row( who I still like), Mike Mc who just got fired for losing with a great qb and lost his team respect. Or a coach like Gruden who everyone wanted
     
  20. troybellringer55

    troybellringer55 Well-Known Member

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    You also have a QB that is in his final years. I’m not sure you bring in a new head coach with that. That’s pretty uncommon.
     
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  21. JPP

    JPP Well-Known Member

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    Tomlin has coached his entire career with a HOF QB. Cowher didn't.

    You saw what Belicheck did in Cleveland without a great QB.

    The fact that Tomlin isn't winning this division year after year, getting a playoff bye every other year and getting to a SB every 4th or 5th year with this QB and talent is unacceptable.
     
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  22. bnasty23

    bnasty23 Well-Known Member

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    Lol, how we miss the point, how good is leadership if the team quit. Ask Mike Mc from Green Bay. So since this team has not quit he must be doing something right.
     
  23. JPP

    JPP Well-Known Member

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    It won't, which is the problem. And Steelers will continue to underachieve.
     
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  24. Trafalgar

    Trafalgar Well-Known Member

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    Never had a losing record? So what? Neither should he have with the talent we've had on the roster. MM got fired because his team has under-performed its talent for years, he lost AR along the way.
     
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  25. KnoxVegasSteel

    KnoxVegasSteel Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes, the old "he has never had a losing season" argument that Tomlin apologists drag out in every argument. Get some new material for Christs sake. If that is your definition of success, then you are happy with mediocrity. 8-8 is not my idea of success. Having to rely on beating the bengals in week 17 and the clowns beating the rats to barely squeak into the playoffs is not my idea of success.
     
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