1. Hi Guest, Registrations are now open. See you on the inside.
    Dismiss Notice

Tua

Discussion in 'General NFL Talk' started by Mashburn, Sep 30, 2022.

  1. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

    13,915
    2,154
    Dec 18, 2016
    The NFL has been trying to bury this stuff for decades. I don't think anybody really understood the danger of concussions in the '70s the way we do now, but when the research did start to come in, yes, the league tried to stifle it.

    There are multiple versions of this story, but Chuck Noll was involved in some of the earliest research into the impact of concussions on football players. One version is that he asked for a study to be done out of concern for his players. Another is that a team doctor told him one of his players had to sit out with a concussion and Noll demanded data to back that up. The doctor couldn't provide it, which spurred him to do the research.

    https://www.chucknollfoundation.org/chuck-noll-legacy
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Junebug

    Junebug Well-Known Member

    522
    85
    Oct 1, 2018
    At first I thought he had a bunch of broken fingers on his hand. What could cause his fingers to go all wacky like that?That was scary.
     
  3. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

    15,262
    3,664
    Oct 19, 2011
    How exactly the brain works and controls the various functions of the body has a long way to go to be understood to a level that we can say anything definitively. My kids have sensory processing disorder which means that the way their brains interpret sensory inputs are not normal. The first we noticed it was my son saying the rain sounds purple. That was how his brain read those sensory cues from his ears and eyes. Why is a mystery.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. shaner82

    shaner82 Well-Known Member

    10,080
    627
    Oct 16, 2011
    It happened all the time. Have you not seen the movie concussion or heard about all the players from previous eras killing themselves?

    It wasn't so much covered up as not understood back then.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

    13,915
    2,154
    Dec 18, 2016
    This column explains why it is wise to consider the statements from the Dolphins and the league to be utter bull****.

    https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nfl-cl...er-thursdays-scary-head-injury-051800394.html

    When a player hits his head on the ground, then gets up shaking his helmet and wobbling and collapsing again, that should be one of those signs of “no-go” neurological trouble that teams are expected to identify. And the next step should probably not be asking the player to make a judgement call about explaining what’s happening medically. Especially when that player’s motivation is going to lean into what Whitworth described: Wanting to keep playing.
     
  6. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

    13,915
    2,154
    Dec 18, 2016
    It was a combination of both. They didn't fully understand it, but once they started to get more information, the NFL did everything it could to keep it from the public.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. jrompola

    jrompola Well-Known Member

    575
    203
    Jul 7, 2015
    As to point #1 they dont show highlights of perfect form tackles. They want to show madden hitstick type plays.

    Point #2 is a definite. Depending on the style of qb penalties are called differently. Is the qb a scrambler or not often influences penalties as well as how big they are. That said brady is very good at avoiding hits. He would just throw the ball down and take a penalty.

    One of my favorite hits is when mcgahee got knocked out by clark. Thatd prob be an immediate ejection today
     
  8. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

    17,038
    4,694
    Dec 23, 2020
    Does He play an instrument, and if not You really should get Him to.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

    15,262
    3,664
    Oct 19, 2011
    Both my son and daughter play the piano and he is starting band in middle school this year. Baritone which fits as my dad and I were tuba players. My daughter is going to start on the violin they both have natural ability with music which helps with the age gap between them and their older sister who is a very good piano player.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. santeesteel

    santeesteel

    10,267
    2,487
    Oct 17, 2011
    Good deal! Just keep them away from the guitar! Those guys are weird!!
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  11. JackAttack 5958

    JackAttack 5958 Well-Known Member

    10,611
    1,299
    Oct 18, 2011
    I thought this killed Bradshaw when it happened. It was kind of similar to the Tua sack in that the DL whipped him around and planted him on his head. Turkey Jones’ sack was much dirtier and intentional though.

     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. SteelinOhio

    SteelinOhio

    4,836
    990
    Oct 16, 2011
    Hey, I resemble that comment!
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. shaner82

    shaner82 Well-Known Member

    10,080
    627
    Oct 16, 2011
    Yeah, I meant back in the 70's. I don't think it was to the point of needing to cover it up back then. I don't think there was much of an understanding of concussions back then
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. santeesteel

    santeesteel

    10,267
    2,487
    Oct 17, 2011
    People didn't get concussions then, they "got their bell rung".
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  15. Mashburn

    Mashburn Well-Known Member

    2,065
    717
    Apr 30, 2021
    I was a CB in football. I miss those days. I wasnt a star. But it was a lot of fun. Even when i got pancaked by a LG.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. Mashburn

    Mashburn Well-Known Member

    2,065
    717
    Apr 30, 2021
    1) that's football.

    In tua case he was injured 4 days ago. While kelce was 100% fine before he got power bombed.
     
  17. Mashburn

    Mashburn Well-Known Member

    2,065
    717
    Apr 30, 2021
    Yeah, i had it happen to me. Once your brain is hit, your brain tells your body to do wild stuff.

    Mine had me stretch out like a crucifix andvmy fingers spaced out.

    It last for a few minutes. But can return over and over again. Mine happened over the course of a couple weeks
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. steel machine

    steel machine Well-Known Member

    8,564
    3,096
    Sep 21, 2017
    I'm not a big boxing fan since the days of a young Ali but I would imagine nobody in that sport makes it to old age fully intact up top.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. shaner82

    shaner82 Well-Known Member

    10,080
    627
    Oct 16, 2011
    He should not have been playing? Why not? I'm not dismissing concussions. Head injuries are probably my biggest fear when it comes to the health of my 6 year old. My point is the NFL has a concussions protocol. While ultimately the final decision rests with the team, there are independent experts involved in the process. Apparently it was determined he was clear to play. The Dolphins are sticking to that statement, rather than trying to throw the team doctor under the bus.

    So my question is if he shouldn't have been playing, why not? Is the concussions protocol flawed? How long should he have been forced to sat out? When could he safely return? I can only assume the concussions protocol is based on science. So is the science wrong? Is there a minimum number of days one should have to sit out after having a concussion? What about when they have concussion like symptoms but a concussions isn't diagnosed? Do they also have to sit out, if so, for how long?

    I'm not trying to dismiss anything. I don't have a cavalier attitude when it comes to head injuries. what I have a problem with is people being thrown under the bus if all protocols were followed. If the protocol is flawed, then change it, but don't throw people under the bus for following the rules. Yes, it was at least a moderate blow due to the fencing posture, but lets also not throw people under the bus because of how scary something looked. Analyze the science, assess the results and make changes with short and long term health in mind. If the Dolphins staff followed the protocol, then lets stop demanding people be fired, or that the Dolphins should lose the franchise (what a stupid suggestion, lets punish a city for the action of team execs).

    I believe in making educated, informed opinions based on facts and evidence. Most of the comments have been based on nothing but emotion. Saying Tua shouldn't play ever again, or the Dolphins should lose the franchise, people should be fired, etc. It's all ridiculous. Tua will play again, the same way almost every athlete has when they've suffered a concussions and/or been knocked out. It's unfortunately not uncommon in contact sports. Nobody should be fired if the protocol was followed properly. If it wasn't, then fine, but right now there's no evidence of that.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. JackAttack 5958

    JackAttack 5958 Well-Known Member

    10,611
    1,299
    Oct 18, 2011
    And once they “cleared the cobwebs” they went back in the game.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  21. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

    17,038
    4,694
    Dec 23, 2020
    The way You described sensory input of Your Son is a common theme in great instrumentalist. That's why I asked. Glad to hear they play. :thumbs_up:
     
  22. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

    15,262
    3,664
    Oct 19, 2011
    I think one of the things that should be looked at and has been discussed is the level of interaction between a team and the independent experts. I would think it would be hard to get to totally independent consults because we are all imperfect and while the team is not paying for the doctors service, we would be foolish to believe that they don't have some opinion on the team. So then it becomes are they truly independent. Then you have what information are they being provided and what is the player telling them. Brees stated this week that he was less than truthful with team doctors in order to keep playing when he shouldn't.

    As far as the shouldn't be playing angle that should be an adult in the room discussion for anytime concerning any injury. Tomlin's choice to play Ben against the Niners in SF comes to mind. Ben at 80% was thought to be better than the backup options, which could have been the case if it wasn't he mobility that was the issue. As it was he was cleared to play, Tomlin made the decision to play him and the the game was lost because Ben could only take snaps in shotgun and barely move allowing the Niners to blitz him all game. In Tua's case regardless of the team doctor clearing him and passing protocol it is ultimately its the coach who should decide it is a bad idea on a four day turn around not to proceed with caution.
     
  23. Steelersfan43

    Steelersfan43 Well-Known Member

    625
    240
    Aug 10, 2016


     
    • Like Like x 1
  24. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

    13,915
    2,154
    Dec 18, 2016
    Yes, the NFL's concussion protocol is flawed. Yes, he should have been forced to sit out. It is part of the job of everyone else, the independent specialist, the medical staff, and the team, to protect players from themselves. Players are going to choose to play most of the time. Part of that is that their brains are literally compromised by the injury. Part is just how they are wired to play through injuries. This is why Hines Ward once ripped Ben Roethlisberger for actually being honest with the medical staff about having concussion symptoms, which led to him missing a game against the Ravens. At the time, he talked about doing the opposite. He basically admitted to lying about his symptoms, covering them up, so he could play. This is the norm.

    No, the science isn't wrong. The people applying it are wrong. In this case, the unaffiliated specialist either intentionally did things wrong or made inexcusable mistakes, which literally put a player's life at risk.

    The usual standard with a concussion is at least seven days, but it can be longer and it is different in each case. All concussions are not created equal. There are degrees. Factors such as whether or not the person lost consciousness and which symptoms they have are just some of the variables.

    I am giving you an educated, informed opinion. I've researched this extensively. I've spoken to experts. I've spoken with athletes who have dealt with concussions directly. I wrote on this when I was a professional journalist and I have continued to research it since. I'm sorry if you don't like reading this, but I know a lot more about this than you do. It is why this situation infuriates me. I understand what was done wrong and why. I understand that a man was put at tremendous risk for permanent brain damage or even death. I hope Tua got lucky. I hope he heals properly and is truly healthy enough to return to his life and career soon. I worry that he might try to return to his career before it is safe again.

    It was clear to people who know this subject, including medical professionals, that the protocols were not followed correctly. I have no idea why you think an NFL team or the league itself deserves any trust on this topic. They don't, especially the league, which tried to cover up the dangers of brain injuries for decades.

    Or course, we got more information after your post, but the only surprise to me was that somebody actually admitted that things were done wrong.
     
  25. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

    13,915
    2,154
    Dec 18, 2016
    That isn't a terrible comparison, but it is a very different situation. A player lacking mobility is at risk, but it isn't the same level of danger as a brain injury.
     

Share This Page

Welcome to the ultimate resource for Steelers fans. Sign Up Here!