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TJ Holdout?

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Blast Furnace, Aug 7, 2021.

  1. Seven4Steel

    Seven4Steel Well-Known Member

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    Okay, so just saw an article with Tomlin saying he's not worried about TJ and that it's good for the others to get those reps (I'm paraphrasing, hard). That's fine. I've no problem with that. He also said TJ is working with the trainers and his conditioning isn't going to be an issue. Again, no issue there.

    Then he said something to the effect of "...as long as it gets done by the first game." Okay, I have an issue with that for a couple reasons. I don't care how much you are conditioning, there is a difference between conditioning and getting your body used to the pounding. There is a physical toll you take playing this game, especially at this level. I remember hearing it be referred to as being in a car accident. That can't be simulated on the sideline. I don't like the cavalier attitude that Tomlin has regarding TJ showing up on September 12th with wet ink on a contract.

    And that brings me to my other issue. Why does this take so long? I mean, there is a number. Get to it. He doesn't even have to be there. His agent can show up and they sit in the room until an agreement is reached. What decisions can't be made today, that can only be made later? I know this is a process, but we're not talking about just any veteran. This deal HAS TO get done. Okay, it doesn't actually have to get done. Both sides can dig their heels in and TJ will show up on September 12th and play without his extension. Or will he?

    What kind of message does it send if we don't pay the man? And is he thinking about this at all during the season? I'd like to think that he can, but if he is thinking about this all pre-season, and there's no resolution, does he just flip the switch? I don't see how he can.

    Get this deal done. Stop farting around.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    It’s not as simple as that unfortunately. Agreeing the overall headline value of the contract is easy. It’s the guarantees and cash flow structure that are going to take the time to agree. This can have huge implications for both sides in the future, especially if something goes wrong, injuries or a loss of form etc.

    Im surprised it’s not done by now, however I don’t think it’s time to panic yet.

    I speculated a few weeks back that the Steelers may be trying to structure the deal to avoid a monster cash payout this year after Covid decimated revenue in 2020. If that is the case I could see how the negotiations could drag on a bit. I’d be very surprised if it doesn’t get done in the next two weeks however.
     
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  3. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    This tweet does a good job of highlighting how important the detail is in these contracts. Mahomes signed the biggest deal in NFL history last year yet Prescott will earn double what Mahomes does over the first three years of his comparatively smaller deal. Money in the bank is what matters. It’s insane how much these contracts can vary from player to player and team to team.

     
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  4. 86WardsWay

    86WardsWay Well-Known Member

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    So 14 contracts over 3 years will pay out $1,170,000,000. It looks like taking my son to see a game in the near future is going to very very pricey.
     
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  5. jamie

    jamie Well-Known Member

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    I have no problem with TJ holding out for the money he has earned, just as I have no problem with the Organization saying no to paying the money they have earned. $30M yr for a LB I just don’t know if that is the best place for the money to be spent but then again money in sports is crazy.
     
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  6. 86WardsWay

    86WardsWay Well-Known Member

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    Paying Watt $30M a year would be well worth it if the men and woman in stripes would throw their little yellow hankies every time he had an arm around his neck but if the past is any indication then the refs will continue to ignore that infraction 50% of the time. A TJ Watt that is allowed to wreck the offenses would be worth every penny of that contract but that simply is not the case and the Steelers shouldn't break the bank for his incredible talent.
     
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  7. Rel

    Rel Well-Known Member

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    That would be his issue.
     
  8. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    It would be an issue for the Steelers as well if he holds out. Even if that choice went poorly for him, that wouldn't make things any better for the Steelers. They would still be without him.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  9. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    The devil is in the details. I remember when Harrison signed with the Bengals and Bouchette reported that Harrison had turned down more money to sign with the Bengals but said the Steelers offer was a very incentive laden deal. We discussed it in circles because many ppl went with the more money aspect and said he was stupid. I tried pointing out that he had money in hand from the Bengals when he signed, no conditions no incentive based pay. I was told but he turned down more money. I said it had strings and wasn't guaranteed so unless the incentives were show up day 1 of camp get 2 million dollars, weigh the same two days in a row get 500k and if it wasn't you take the money in hand over "you could" get this if you jump all these hoops.
     
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  10. PWP

    PWP Well-Known Member

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    This is not going to be popular , but I wouldn't pay him so many Teams use the quick strike Offense and you can also scheme a guy out of production..It's not that I don't think he is a great player I still believe the CB play makes the pass rush..

    We need a QB and a Franchise tackle and a CB soon if Haden hits the wall ,I would use the money for them and Watt would make more somewhere else anyway ..
     
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  11. shaner82

    shaner82 Well-Known Member

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    It's an issue for both sides. The Steelers lose the second best defensive player in the league and Watt loses a ton of money. It's not good for anyone.
     
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  12. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    Steelers fans: You don't pay a linebacker the same amount as a QB no way do you give Watt 30 million a year, let him walk and use that money to fill numerous holes on the team.

    Team let's Watt go via free agency and after first two weeks of preseason

    Steelers fans: We have no pass rush we need to sign player X to fix our edge rush and 14 mil a year is a steal for player X on the wrong side of 30. It will fix everything!

    :facepalm:

    Sometimes as a fan base we are really knowledgeable and other times we are nearing Cleveland Brown stupidity levels.
     
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  13. Seven4Steel

    Seven4Steel Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't disagree more. Now, can CB play make the pass rush? Yes. But it isn't even in the realm of possibility for the Steelers. Our secondary is, and has been for a few years, the glaring liability on our defense. When the pass rush doesn't get home, they are exposed. Even Minkah's picks have come as a result of pressure on the QB. Without our pass rush, Minkah wouldn't look so good on paper. Our pass rush sets up everything we do defensively and is the catalyst for defensive production across the board. When injuries piled up late last season and the pass rush diminished, there was no help from the secondary and our "elite" defense couldn't stop anyone.
     
  14. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    Like I said I'm on both sides of this.
    I did look up all the Top 10 sack Guys for the last 5 years, and only like 3 of them lead their teams where You would think spending this much on a player would take them.
    You'd be surprised How many didn't even make a playoff...let alone win one.

    It's kind of scary 2 think You maybe very well be spending the next 5 years for just stats.

    Like I said I'm so square middle of the fence on this one....it's busting my B@lls .
     
  15. Seven4Steel

    Seven4Steel Well-Known Member

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    You might be right about that, and yes, it's scary. But it's a good point. We pay superstars superstar money for what? Stats. And for all the numbers and highlight reels, how many championships does that get you? How many playoff wins? Or is just winning some games in the regular season the goal for all the money?
     
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  16. TheTerribleOwl

    TheTerribleOwl Well-Known Member

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    If the Steelers aren't wiling to pay TJ what he deserves then they should just fold. When you get someone as good as he is you do everything you can to keep him. If that means paying the market price then you pay it.
     
  17. Seven4Steel

    Seven4Steel Well-Known Member

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    TJ's contract is a funny thing...even though I don't really agree with you, I can't argue against it. There's really no right or wrong position to take on this issue.
     
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  18. TheTerribleOwl

    TheTerribleOwl Well-Known Member

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    What's the point of getting a generational talent if you don't bother to try to keep him? It's going to be expensive because he's ****ing amazing. It seems like a lot of people would rather have ****ty players that come cheap.
     
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  19. Seven4Steel

    Seven4Steel Well-Known Member

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    I get it. I know where you're coming from. Part of me agrees.

    But to what end? What is the expectation for the organization by paying for that generational talent? We had Ben, AB, and Bell at one point. I think it could be argued that in their prime, they were 3 of the best at their position. What did that get us?

    I want them to extend TJ. No question. But extending him doesn't mean we're even making the playoffs. So whoopdy freaking do, we get a generational talent locked up for a few years. Does that mean we're going to be better as a team?

    And think about this. If we were to trade him for a pile, would we be guaranteed to be worse as a team? I don't think our wins and losses are guaranteed to be better or worse without him.

    But again, I still want him extended.
     
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  20. TheTerribleOwl

    TheTerribleOwl Well-Known Member

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    There isn't a single move they could make that would guarantee anything but I still prefer to have more talent rather than less.
     
  21. AFan

    AFan Well-Known Member

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    The Steelers will sign Watt. They more or less have to. If they dont, it will be major departure from their history of always signing their home grown top talent in their prime. Failure to sign him will put a lie to the facade that they’re “all in” this yr for Ben last SB ride. Failure to sign him will make them look cheap. They have no other choice.

    But I think there’s a very high chance that in a couple of yrs that Watts new deal will look like a bad one for the teams cap.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2021
    • Agree Agree x 2
  22. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    The linebackers have been better with Haden & Minkah...food for thought
    (well the outside linebacking)
     
  23. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    I think the pass rush and coverage are inextricably linked, they depend on each other. If one unit is elite it’ll benefit the other and vice versa. The Steelers have had the best pass rush in the NFL in recent years and it has definitely helped the secondary but we have seen times where opponents get the ball out quickly negating the pass rush, meaning the secondary had to step up. It’s essentially one weak link system, linebackers are also becoming a bigger factor in it as they are increasingly being asked to cover.

    The move to soften the number of holding calls has definitely devalued the pass rush a bit but it’s still a premium position. TJ would have had 20+ sacks last year if he had a fair shake from the refs.
     
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  24. Rel

    Rel Well-Known Member

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    Who says they aren't trying to keep him? I think all we are saying is that both sides need to be flexible.
     
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  25. PWP

    PWP Well-Known Member

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    I agree with your points the problem is havingto play Minkah deep and no one near as good as Haden to man up.. My point is get a young cat as good as the now older Haden and another young Haden and get Edmunds and Minkah in the box with oh here I go again sorry..With a Truse single High and let Edmunds be force and Minkah be Robber and now we got something..At tht point me and you can rush the QB at a high level..

    The pressure on the QB was a result of making the QB hold it longer if your CB'S cant play press then your pass rush is really all smoke and mirrors..

    edit.. Pass rush and coverage scheme is really all smoke and mirrors.. I was not clear sorry.. We have to fool the OC and the QB and this also makes the QB hold it longer if we do it, but if they figure it out then Watt will get no sacks and very little pressure .. I think I have seen that a time or 2..

    If we can cover all things become possible ..Then you add the smoke and when they smell smoke then show them the mirrors ..This is how the game of Chess applies to Football.. The Team with the most moves ahead will most likely win the day, but to get ahead your Pawns need to be on point..
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2021

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