The Bourbon - and other spirits - Thread (was: @ Myronwemissyinz)

Not all good scotches are expensive. Sure, some single malts get up there in price, but it turns out that blended scotch does not mean "lower quality." And younger scotches are still good. They just tend to have different characteristics. Glenmorangie 10 years old sounds "young," but tasted great to me.

You can get a lot of good blends for under $50. Monkey Shoulder - which I sang praises of in my last post - is under $40 in most places. It's pretty much in the decent-good bourbon price range.

I'll eventually revisit Islay Single Malts - both when my nerve and wallet are up to it.

 

Busted.

But I tend to post in the middle of the night regardless.

 

I tried in vain years ago to appreciate scotch.



I do love a nice cognac, though. By nice, I mean ones I can't afford. My buddy worked at a very upscale B&B type resort, and when I'd pick him up after hours on weekends, I learned that expensive buttery cognacs pair well with expensive cigars.

 

Oh, I know the experience all too well. (Disclaimer: yes, it's late. But I have NOT been imbibing. )

I don't know if your issue was with scotch itself, or hard liquor period. Looking back, I think I just wasn't accustomed to hard liquor enough to even begin to appreciate whisky/whiskey of any sort. But trying a shot of a very smokey/peaty 100 proof scotch? Liquid fire! And I associated all scotch with that experience. I'd try every once in a blue moon again only to get the same result.

And that's the key word there: "shot." I was drinking hard liquor wrong to begin with. Well, not wrong exactly - nothing wrong with doing a shot or 3 - but wrongly to appreciate flavor. And for most of my adult life, that's how I drank most hard liquor. Oh, I'd sip on a brandy or cognac sometimes (oddly enough, I never really cared for cognac except the flavored sort like Grande Marnier). But anything else was by the shot, or taking larger mouthfuls either way. And you're just not going to taste much good doing that. The alcohol and subsequent burn just overpowers everything else. Possibly worse, I'd occasionally try to take a drink (not sip) and hold it to taste something, only to have it burn even more!

Over time, I formed a love affair with tequila to the point where I was sipping on it (albeit on the rocks with a splash of lime) rather than shooting it. But that was the first step for me - getting accustomed period with liquor so higher proof didn't immediately set my mouth and throat on fire. The sipping part came by accident, but it worked. Then it was rum here and there.

I sometimes enjoyed shooting bourbon. It's usually a smoother experience. So when this thread started, I began trying to actually TASTE it. And taking SMALL sips was the key. Actually, strike that. Taking a cue from other whiskey drinkers and taking time to get the aroma before sipping was the key. It was trial by error. I quickly learned not to bury my face in the glass or all I'd get is an inhalation of alcohol. But gently smelling the drink eventually brought out aromas I could identify other than just "whiskey." And it's funny how our senses work. Because once I smelled "vanilla and burnt sugar," or "butterscotch" or "coffee," sure enough, I tasted it too. That and taking much smaller sips, at least for the first pour or 2 until my tongue was primed and ready for more.

And I suppose repetition and broadening ones horizons helps too. As I talked about in the Beer thread, I used to hate all ales and despised IPAs. Over time, I came to appreciate ales, and I even enjoy the occasional IPA (well, some of them anyway). Part of that was just experience over time, and some of it was getting out of my own head and not letting past bad experience prejudice my taste.

So if your larger problem is hard alcohol period, well, you'll have some way to go if you ever even want to try. And there's nothing wrong with being a just beer guy or cocktail guy. Drink what you like. Or don't at all. To each their own. But if you don't really have a problem with hard liquor, I'd suggest you try scotch again. You might surprise yourself. Oh, I don't mean going straight to cask strength smokey Islays. But a simpler blend and/or Speyside will surprise you, I guarantee it.

Strummer can correct me here if I'm wrong. After all, I'm just a novice. But I was exactly where you were until only 2 weeks ago. And once I get excited about something, I tend to read and learn what I can.

Look for a Speyside blend (they tend to be cheaper) and try. Give it half a bottle or so (not necessarily in one night ) I promise you that you'll surprise yourself. You can go with a Highland scotch too like Glenmorangie since if there's a difference between them and Speysides in general, my palate can't tell. I really recommend Monkey Shoulder. That one turned the light on for me. But I've had a few now and they all seem to be enjoyable. Glenfiddich isn't quite as sweet to me, but the flavor doesn't need the sweetness. A bottle I got for Christmas and always associated with "Grandpa" is Chivas Regal 12. And that's an easy drinker. Soft, on the sweeter side, and nothing abrasive, harsh or challenging about it. Then again,it's not exactly rich and knock your socks off either.

And on a somewhat related note:

I found out today that in May, my first Grandson will arrive. I'm thinking about getting a nicer bottle of scotch and some good cigars to celebrate when the day comes. Unfortunately, I know jack about cigars or which ones go well with scotch. And I'm unsure of which scotch to get. Should I finally get a single malt Islay? Or go with what I know I'll probably like but a bit higher in tier like a single malt Speyside/Highland? Right now, I'm leaning toward trying to get my hands on Glenmorangie Quinta Ruban. Just the idea of Glenmorangie (which I already like) finished in port barrels seems intriguing. It's a tad more pricey than I'd care for, but it's a special occasion. Thoughts?

 

It's not that.
For the most part, I've mostly been a Jack and Coke guy when it comes to liquor. I don't have a problem with hard alcohol. Years ago I'd go ice fishing with a buddy of mine, and we'd share a flask of Jack, Captain or similar for sipping.

Funny story about cognac. The first cognac I tried was poured by my buddy at the B&B I mentioned earlier. It was absolutely fantastic. It was a half snifter of Louis XIII. After we sat by the fireplace and sipped on them with a cigar, he asked me if I liked it. I said it was fantastic, and I couldn't believe that I wasn't a cognac drinker. His reply was- "That's a $200 glass you just drank." If I hadn't already finished my glass, I would have done a spit take. Occasionally after that, I'd have a couple fingers of Courvoisier XO which was also very good. Anyway, not long after I was at a bar and asked if they had any cognac. The only kind they had was Hennessy. Having never tried it, and knowing that I was now a Cognac connoisseur, I figured it couldn't be much different.

I haven't tried scotch in a very long time. Johnny Walker on a couple occasions, and Glenlivit once. My palate has undoubtedly changed since then, so maybe I'd enjoy it more now.

I'll give it a try.

Congrats!!

 

And so it begins...

Added a few more bottles of whiskey to the collection recently. Birthday presents to myself a little while back.

I already bottled down the Glenmorangie 10 and the first Chivas since Christmas (second bottle of Chivas is in need of being put to bed too. Maybe 5 drams left). Monkey Shoulder outshines Chivas so much, I've nursed that while getting the Chivas out of the way.

So, with a little coin in my pocket as I crept even closer to 50, I grabbed a couple more bottles. I was out of bourbon for some time. And since I tried it at my favorite watering hole, I just had to get a bottle for home. It's the best bourbon that's not a bourbon I've ever had - and reasonably priced. Michter's American Unblended Whiskey. Can be had for about the same price as, say, Maker's Mark 46 and it is amazing stuff. The reason it's not a bourbon is because you can't call it that legally - they aged it in used barrels. By law, bourbon MUST be aged in new oak barrels (finishing is another story). Other than the barrels, it's basically bourbon. But oh what a difference the barrels they use makes. Michter's makes a very good bourbon, and a decent Rye. But the Unblended American whiskey is on a different level. Rich, bold yet rounded off flavors (almost a vanilla bomb and brown sugar or caramel - my brain can't figure that out precisely, maybe a touch of spice / cinnamon) and sweet but not SWEET. It's a comfort whiskey.

I was hoping to get my hands on Balvenie Double Wood 12 y/o to try. But the stores close to me only had the 17 y/o, and I'm not made of money.

I tend to go all in when I get enthusiastic about something. So I started reading reviews, tasting tips, etc. Started watching some Youtube channels to help me figure out what I'm supposed to be tasting. And, dammit, the one video came up. They started comparing the general differences between Speysides and Islay flavor profiles. Speysides are buttery, fruity, bright, caramel, soft and sweeter (agreed). Islays are bolder, rich, briney, smokey, oily, and peaty. If Highland/Speyside scotches are brighter, friendlier, and lightly sweet, Islays punch you in the mouth. Think campfire smoke, heavy, smoked meats and sea spray salt. Not for first timers in general, but worth it to those who can handle it.

Well, hell. THAT description got my attention. And so I now have a bottle of Laphroaig Quarter Cask. I likely won't try it until this weekend. But I'll report back. And this time some 25 years after my horrible experience with a heavy Islay, I plan to "drink it 'til you like it." But who knows? Maybe it'll be love at first sip. (Not gulped / choked down swiftly like I did with a Laphroaig 10 a couple years ago just so my friend wouldn't think less of me. It.. wasn't horrible. But I never actually tasted it really.)

 

Oh. My. Sweet. Lord.

With some excitement and not a small amount of trepidation, I gently opened the seal and popped the cork on Laphroaig Quarter Cask. My intellect screamed, "NOOO!!" but my instincts overruled and I took a good whiff of the bottle before even pouring. SMOKE! But not campfire smoke. Not stale ashtray smoke. More of a smoke that suggested the inside of a well seasoned, English (Scottish?) pipe.

I poured out a dram and let it rest for a little while. The nose this time still had that smoke, but it was tamed just a bit. Now I was smelling something rich, and earthy. Moss (peat?), wet rich soil, a sweeter smell of damp hay, or something grassy and faintly floral, and an odd twinge of a medicinal smell (iodine). Then I swore I smelled sea spray somewhere in the background and my imagination took me to a cold, surf blasted, windy coast at night by a fire.

But I remembered all too well my first disastrous taste of an Islay many years ago and braced myself for the worst...

And was taken aback by a very surprisingly SWEET taste. Oh, the taste definitely followed the nose, but the sweetness caught me off guard. I had to concentrate to taste any hint of brine, but it was there lingering in the shadows. With each small sip, more flavors developed: oak, a small, faint hint of honey, and many more it may take me a long time to process. I come from simpler whiskey. This stuff is far richer and more complex than I'm used to.

I added a few drops of water, and that really brought out the smoke on the nose. Only now, it was the smell of a campfire. A good smell, mind. It also enhanced the hints of honey and sweetness. A few times, I had an aftertaste that for just a moment reminded me of smokehouse barbecue. But the overall effect still brought my imagination to a small cottage on a windblown shore with a fire roaring in the hearth and the sound of waves crashing the beach.

I'm officially a convert. May God have mercy on my soul.

 

That is all. (Oh, and after a few Laphroaigs, Eagle Rare becomes a dessert whiskey - buttersctoch, caramel, brown sugar, toffee and a hint of nutmeg. Sweet and rich)

 

Because I drink, and I know things.

And because, Lagavulin. That's reason enough. (Early Christmas present from my better half)

 

I did manage to get my hands on some of The Balvenie 14 y/o Caribbean Cask. They should just have called it "Dessert in a bottle." Very nice, but too sweet for any real drinking.

(And this coming from a former rum drinker who said he couldn't find any sweetness in whiskey. What the hell happened to me?)

 

Forgot Bout this wonderful thread. Thought I'd give a little update on my own whisky thoughts.

So for the past 20 years my drinking habits have always been varied. Never stuck to just to one liquor. Enjoyed everything from beer, vodka, rum and whisky.

For the past 10 years I've completely given up on conventional, domestic beer in favor of craft beer, specifically IPAs. But I'll leave that for the BEER thread.

Since my last post about 18 months ago, whisky and specifically Bourbon has consumed my drinking habits.

I re-read this entire thread tonight and really enjoyed the evolution in the past 8 years. @Ray D seems like he's really been on a great journey of exploration!

So a little Bourbon talk for a bit.

Of your run of the mill Bourbons, so what I would consider less than $60/bottle. Now that's Canadian price, so it may seem high to some but yes, we pay through the nose for alcohol. It stinks but probably prevents alot of alcoholism.

So based on that I would say that Buffalo Trace is probably my favorite budget bourbon. It and Eagle Rare 10 YO are neck and neck, and given they are from the same company, that's not surprising. You can't go wrong with either especially Buffalo Trace.

The first Bourbon I ever had and really what I consumed exclusively bourbon wise up until 2 years ago is Makers Mark. It gets alot of hate but having drunk it for the past 10 years there is a comfort factor to it. It's got great cherry and oak flavor and I still go back to it more than any other bourbon.

My new favorite as of late is Elijah Craig small batch. Pure Brown sugar and molasses sweetness. Definite a we'll rounded sweet bourbon that is growing on me. Completely different profile than Makers.

Last year I started drinking alot of Wild Turkey and specifically the 101. A really nice bourbon that is certainly stronger. Usually drink neat but the 101 with some ice is a very good drink.

Sticking with Wild Turkey, as the Whisky fest last November, I got to try 3 other products of theirs, Rare Breed, Long Branch and Masters Keep. Respectively they go for $62, $50, and $200 respectively. I gotta be honest, I enjoyed the Rare Breed way more than the more expensive Masters Keep. I'll definitely go Rare Breed as a special treat.

Booker's is a bit of a challenge. Tends to go for around $100 and is 126 proof of 63%. It's probably a little too boozy for my tastes but nice to have on hand when you need something a little stiffer.

I don't have alot of good to say about Evan Williams so I won't oile on but if they have any special products someone is willing to recommend I would try but I tried 3 different ones (1783, Black label and single Barrell 2010) and they were just kinda blah.

Woodford Reserve goes for around $50 here. Another solid classic bourbon. Definitely a top 5 for me.

I've never really been a Jim Beam guy, especially their base bourbon. However, they are doing alot of exciting stuff with some of their other lines and special runs. I believe Larceny may be a Beam product which I like as it uses wheat instead of rye, like Makers.

At the whisky fest, they had a $350 bottle of Jim Beam Distiller's masterpiece. It's too expensive for me to buy on my own, but this is bar none the best bourbon I've ever had. Once again, likely not worth the extra price, but if you can afford it, get it. It is a real treat.

So as it sits right now, I would say these are my top 10 "budget" Bourbons.

1. Buffalo Trace
2. Eagle Rare 10 YO
3. Makers Mark
4. Elijah Craig
5. Woodford Reserve
6. Wild Turkey 101
7. Larceny
8. Redemption
9. 1792 Small Batch
10. Knob Creek Single Barrel

I think there are some good variations of Four Roses out there but unfortunately I've never had it. They don't stock any of them at our liquor stores. I have to remember the next time I am in the states to grab a bottle. Likewise in the states there is a Makers Mark Cask Strength I'll be looking to try out.

So there's a little bit of my Bourbon journey over the past 2 years. I'm still dipping my toe into Scotch but clearly not ready to dive in just yet. To me it seems like you gotta spend considerably more money for good scotch than you do for good bourbon. I remember at the last festival trying some Laphroaig, Macallan, CompassBox amongst others. Good but just not great enough to swing me in that direction just yet.

Cheers!

 

Eagle Rare is basically hand picked barrels of Buffalo Trace aged 1o years instead of 4. BT is very good, but I vastly prefer Eagle Rare. In fact, for an affordable price, it's my favorite bourbon.

I agree with your assessment of Elijah Craig, although it seems hotter than it should be. Maybe that's because it's no longer a strictly 12 y/o bourbon as it used to be.

Makers is nice, and... that's it. Nothing remarkable about it. Try as I might, I just can't appreciate WT 101. I can't even put my finger on why.

I used to sing Larceny's praises. I still like it, but now it's just above average to me. Just taking your top 10, I'd order them this way:

1. Eagle Rare
2. Knob Creek
3. Elijah Craig
4. Woodford Reserve
5. Larceny
6. Maker's Mark
7. Buffalo Trace
8. WT 101
9. 1792
10. Redemption. (full disclosure: I've never had Redemption, but since it's a MGP made bourbon, I'll wager it's very close to Bulleit which I would rank similarly).

All that said, my tastes have gone over to mostly scotch and Irish whiskey lately. I still like bourbon, but I tend to drink it as a change of pace, or dessert after a real smokey Islay. And I always have Eagle Rare in stock.

 

Nice comments.

Yes, I avoided MGP for a long time. Fundamentally and philosophically I'm against how that supply chain works. But if something is a good whisky and it tastes good then so be it. Redemption is definitely in the Bulleit ballpark but I think it okays better drinking it need where I've always seen bulleit as a cocktail bourbon.

There's no doubt Bourbons are generally sweet and I think my palate is definitely in tune to that.

Not sure how many Canadian whiskies go down your way but I'll put together a list of them too. We make some good stuff. I need to try some other American whiskeys like Michtners and tin cup.

I'm gonna keep strong on Bourbons and American whiskeys until November until the Whisky Festival. This year I'll really try to find a brand or type of scotch that I can explore.

 

I have nothing at all against MGP. Good whiskey is good whiskey. There's plenty of legitimate reasons to source your whiskey (and it's an acceptable long term practice in Scotland and Ireland anyway). My issue is with guys who simply take it and slap a label on it. At least do something with it. Age it longer in your environment, or finish it, etc.

You Canadians keep your best stuff to yourselves. All we get is like Seagrams and Crown. Lot 40 is available in the US, but I've never seen it on my local shelves.

Do try Michters if you get the chance. Especially their American Unblended Whiskey. Tin Cup is an easy drinker, but that's about all. Nothing offensive. It tastes fine. But it won't knock your socks off either. Then again, sometimes, that's exactly what you want from your whiskey. (I'd put Crown in that category too)

Try High West if the price is right. They make some really good stuff (funny enough, they source a lot of their stuff. Or did for their first few years. Maybe not now. Not sure. Either way, they don't just slap labels on it). Their Campfire is like liquid crack to me.

 

My brother from another mother.

Which Laphroaig is your go to? I haven't had one I didn't like yet, but my overall favorite is Quarter Cask (bang for buck). The 10 is nice (I prefer Ardbeg 10). Triple Wood tastes great, but it's a little mild to me. I love their Lore, but it's so damned expensive that it's a special occasion type whisky. Maybe a little pour, then put it away.

Have you tried anything else from Islay?

I remember Monkey Shoulder being an eye opener back when I first bought it. It's still good, but my tastes have evolved to where Speysides aren't the first thing I reach for.

I think you'll really like Redbreast. Just a really solid Irish Whiskey. Much richer in flavor anyway to something like Jameson or Bushmills (not there's a damned thing wrong with either of those).

 

Was just seeing what Laphroaig prices were here locally (Canadian of course)

QC $78
10YO $80
Triple Wood $90
CAIRDEAS FINO CASK FINISH 2018 $105
Lore $200

 

In PA, average prices are:

10 y/o $50

QC. $65

Triple Wood $75(ish)

Any Cairderas usually around $80-85

Lore $129

All are often on sale for 5 bucks off or so. I got Lore for $99 on sale. I buy nothing unless it's on sale. Thankfully, it's frequent.

Ardbeg's offerings have an almost identical scale of price.

 

So they definitely seem to be over pricing the Lore.

QC and Triple wood seems like better value.

Just looking over my guide from the Whisky festival I went to in November. They had a Laphroaig 25YO that retails for $640 Canadian. I probably had it but I'll pay extra special attention this year.

 

Auchentoshan is a lowland malt if memory serves. I haven't had it yet, but eventually I'll get around to it.

I have never seen Bunnahabhain in the wild and I would love to try it. Same goes for other Islays that just aren't carried here (not all are peat monsters)

I'm a little jealous.