Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by steelersrule6, Mar 29, 2021.
I don't recall him being knocked completely unconscious. When did that happen?
He got completely knocked out against the ravens.
I stand corrected. Forgot about that. Was thinking about the helmet bashing incident.
Darnold might be salvageable. I wouldn't mind them bringing him in next year even if they plan on picking a QB low in the draft in '22. I believe if they thought as highly about Mason Rudolph as they say they do, they would have told Ben his time as a Steeler was done.
KTFO. He doesn’t even know what country he is in, here.
LoL. I have 2 go back and look , but I believe he was so out..... he was on his back ,and pointing at the sky.
He looks like a young John Travolta there.
It definitely appears that Colbert wanted to tell Ben he was done but Art had other ideas.
I'm disappointed. For a while during the season, you seemed to finally come around to reality on Edmunds, but you've fallen back into vastly overrating the guy. He is a decent tackler with poor ball instincts. That leads to him being beaten or taking penalties even when he is in position. No, he really is not among the bets strong safeties in the NFL.
Whoa Nelly, rock solid? Sorry Ask I have to disagree as far as rock solid. Has he improved? Yes, in baby steps. He still needs tweeking as far as coverage. Hopefully he takes a step up this season. They have to make a decision on his 5th year option as well.
Ed Bouchette was on The Fan and related that when Ben was still in limbo about returning, he had heard that of Tomlin, Colbert and AR2, one wanted him back, one was on the fence and one wanted him to retire. I completely agree that of the three, Colbert was the most pragmatic. I think AR2 wanted him back and Tomlin just didn't want to make a decision.
I really enjoy AQL's commitment to the draft and his evaluation of college and pro talent and his enthusiasm for same, but I disagree with his take on Terrell Edmunds. Edmunds is a decent, run of the mill pro football player, nothing more. I think what you see with him is as good as he's ever going to be. Should have been a middle round pick. I think Minkah Fitzpatrick makes him look better than he actually is.
Outside of someone like Jamal Adams, Derwin James, Micah Hyde, Harrison Smith, Adrian Amos and Landon Collins, there really isn't many other Strong Safeties in the game that played in 2020, or at present as we speak today, that have done more to improve than Terrell had in 2020 to warrant. Again and, remember, Strong Safety is not an inherent ball hawking position by trade. Yes, said players have to cover well but that is typically not their strongest suit. Derwin James really is the only notable exception but he simply has athletic gifts and the talent to match that very seldom appear among Safeties within the Draft. Only reason I cannot use him though for 2020 is because.... well.... he did not play.
Getting back to the point, the most important aspects of a Strong Safety is Run Support coverage against Tight Ends . Terrell was decent in his Rookie Season but stayed that way in 2019 despite the higher totals. 2020 though is where he did indeed break through in this regard. Now, for his pass coverage skills.... you have me on that one. I think me and you can both agree that both 2018 and 2019 were poor. 2020 though is a different story here though as Edmunds greatly improved in this regard; a far more rounded player as a result.
Finally though, we now have the "Minkah Effect" aspect to discuss and, one that does need a bit of clarification. If we are merely talking about Terrell being better simply because Minkah is in the backfield then I would agree...... in 2019. Remember, Terrell Edmunds was by no means a True, Deep Centerfielder like Minkah was coming out of college. Add the fact that Mike Tomlin was not going to attempt to pigeonhole Terrell into that role and, well, September 16th, 2019 is a day that will live in Steelers History. However, merely adding Minkah into the equation is not what made Terrell better. Keep in mind that Terrell Edmunds was among 2nd on the team in Tackles and one of eight safeties in 2019 to amass 100+ Tackles or more. Here in lies the kicker; Terrell is one of four Strong Safeties to achieve said feat. The others were Landon Collins, Eric Reid and Shawn Williams. That is it. Much of this high volume of Tackles does have to do with Minkah's arrival but much of the reason as to why Terrell had so many Tackles was also due in part to Minkah merely being deployed as a Single High Free Safety and seldom used elsewhere.
Now, 2020?! Different story. His Tackles count is way down from 2019; 105 vs 68. However, Minkah's tackle count went up; 69 total from 2019 to 79 total in 2020. Now, a major reason as to why something as simple as Tackles is being mentioned, and critical here, has to do with how much more knowledgeable and comfortable Minkah now is in the Steelers Scheme. With that knowledge in tow, Minkah can be used more like the Chess Piece he was supposed to be used like in Miami but allowing his ball hawking abilities to be put to good use. Now, how this affects Terrell is that now the team believes he is capable of being moved around more thanks in part, not due in part, to Minkah. This major boost in experience for Minkah now allows Terrell to become more of a Chess Piece but like Minkah, still allows him to primarily use his greatest strengths in the form of Run Support.
Now that we have established why Terrell's ascension has been more notable than others give him credit for, allow me to again state this; great to even elite coverage capabilities for a Strong Safety are UNIMAGINABLY RARE. Troy Polamalu's and Derwin James' come out once every so often. The mistake some within the fan base seem to have is that Terrell needs to be a high level coverage player while also being stout against the run; the latter portion I would say he is getting close towards but not there yet.
Within that same vein, I will give the the Terrell descenters this; his blitzing ability, while also showing marked improvement, still needs some tuning overall. This trait is actually the most underreprciated but most important aspect for qualifying a Strong Safety as an elite level defender. Jamal Adams is exactly this as having a Defensive Back that can blitz from anywhere is an invaluable asset to any Defense. Steelers fans should know as Troy showed that to absolute effect; the likes of which none of us will ever see again. That said, the mere fact that Terrell showcased marked improvement implies that, by the overall measure of what constituties a Strong Safety, tells me that he is, and again, "Rock Solid".
In short?! Terrell Edmunds will NEVER be on the same level that Troy Polamalu and Jamal Adams (three All Pros guys!!) were and are. That said, Terrell Edmunds can and will be a very steady presence for the Steelers for a very long time as he does not need to be. Do I wish he could get an All Pro?! Oh without a doubt. Few people have supported Terrell Edmunds on this board as long as I have. That said, while I have come to the conclusion that he will never be an All Pro, to say he is not an invaluable member of this secondary is not just short sighted but also unfair.
Compared to what others may believe, Terrell is a Top 10 Strong Safety entering the 2021 Season. For my money, should his ascension continue in addition to staying healhty, look for him to have a Pro Bowl nod as well.
The Steelers errored when they made Edmunds a 1st round pick. Is there any doubt about that? I think he deserves to be on the team and is getting better so I am not down on his presence. Its just someone saw something that wasn't really there and it's taken some time to get there. That is not a 1st round DB pick IMO. This post was originally about wasting time on yet another teams bust in Darnold and TEmund is just another decimated horse getting beatin in that topics afterlife. This could be Edmunds year to break out. It took Bud years to find his way and now many think he is all world even after getting injured. Lets give TE the same consideration.
You are welcome to keep fooling yourself if you like, but in no way is Edmunds even close to a Pro Bowl level. Maybe he will suddenly take a huge step forward like Bud Dupree did, but there are no indications that such a turnaround is coming.
Where is this indication that his blitzing skills improved? Yes, he came up with a huge sack to clinch the victory over the Broncos last season, but that was his only sack all season. You offered up some theories about the team trusting him more, but nothing concrete. Like many Steelers' fans, you were fooled by the fact that he made three big plays in 2020, but even those weren't that impressive. He got a sack against Denver because the Broncos left him untouched and intercepted two passes thrown by a guy who had no business starting an NFL game when they beat the Jaguars.
No matter how long you think Bud took....if you watched all the games you seen flashes almost instantly. Now the overall gameplay wasn't there, but flashes of what could be were. 1st flash I seen of T. Edmunds was this last season. That's what's scary. Also if 50% of the TDs your giving up are related 2 one person time after time......Well...make your own assumptions.
Dupree had stretches of games before his breakout season when it seemed he was putting it together, such as late in the 2016 season and the playoffs that year. Part of the problem was he couldn't stay healthy. He would either miss time or try to play through injuries that limited his production. That isn't the case with Edmunds. One of his positive attributes is that he has been durable.
He just hasn't been good. Maybe they pick up the fifth year because they think an average starting safety is worth it, but to claim he is among the league's best strong safeties just doesn't fit what we have seen in his first three seasons. Taking him in the first round was a significant error that still has repercussions for the roster, especially when you consider that they could have had guys like Nick Chubb or Darius Leonard.
At any point, Pittsburgh is not likely going to get Darnold as it stands. Costs too much via the fifth year option anyway. Would rather the team invest in one in the draft in either 2021 or 2022.
Ba Ba Ba...Ba Ba Barino
Edmunds is definitely trending in the right direction and had a pretty nice season last year. There’s no reason to think he won’t continue to improve, I highly doubt he has hit his ceiling. It’s like fans hold a grudge or something against players that have a slow start and then won’t give them credit when they begin to play well. Same thing with Bud.
I can't say I'm a fan of what you wrote about fans allowing a grudge to cloud their judgement, but I guess it is the equivalent of me suggesting that some people were fooled by Edmunds making three big plays in 2020. I think there is more evidence to support the latter because people were finally admitting he was a bust, then suddenly changed their tune just because he intercepted two passes against Jacksonville's terrible quarterback.
Edmunds is average at best. He is solid against the run. He improved in the sense that he isn't completely blowing coverage as often, but his ball skills still suck and that isn't likely to change. Would that be viewed in a more positive light if the Steelers had drafted him in the third round where he belonged? Probably, but that doesn't make him anything more than average.
Yes they should get Darnold for James Washington and a 3rd round pick in Next years draft not this year!
Also, Jets need to pick up Some of the Contract!
Edmunds is TERRIBLE....
Put BUSH at Safety.... He can be our next Troy!
Let him float around!