Ronde Barber credits Tomlin

If you think the defenses won those super bowls, why didn't any of those great, dominant Steelers' defenses win any super bowls before Ben Roethlisberger got there?

 

You keep trying to spin this as if I’ve said that the defense is the sole reason and that Ben played no part. I said that the defense is what led those last 2 championship teams. The defense was the best side of the ball on each of those teams. Do you have a challenging argument for that or are you going to just keep asking questions that deflect?

I’ll never deny that Ben is better than guys like O’Donnell, Slash, Tomczak, and Tommy Maddox. Him being better than those guys is why the Steelers won rings with him and not them.

The question is irrelevant to the point of contention.

The question is, what led that ‘08 Steelers team? Ben and the offense or that defense? There’s no game winning drive opportunity without that defense playing great(minus 1 play) up until that point. The game shouldn’t have been that close. You score 13 points in a Super Bowl and still get an opportunity to win the game on the last possession? You thank the defense for that.

 

Exactly the response I expected. Thanks for playing.

 

Yea it should be more than clear by now that your simpleminded deflections don’t work with me. It takes much more sophisticated trolling tactics to get me off my square.

 

Yup, you such big brain. Me so stupid.

 

That’s basically what you’ve said in your responses.

“Let’s dumb this all the way down. Did Ben lead the team on a game winning drive or not?”

As if that settles it lol.

 

..and so Tomlin says:
"Ronde, you're NOT a barber!!!

 

I have better things to do than troll you. I asked you a simple question and you chose not to answer it. Way to go though, Ace. You were able to point out the glaringly obvious fact that Ben had some pretty damn good defenses. Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.
Hell, this wasn't about me trying to stick up for Ben, and I wasn't even disagreeing with you about those defenses. You're not wrong that those defenses carried Ben to the Super Bowl, he didn't have a great year in the 2007-2008 season. However, let's not act like the guy who is 4th on the list for game winning drives didn't win a game or two here and there. Also, your plug and play thought is simply bullsh!t. Any one could have won with those defenses? Man, that is dense.
You want to throw out facts, well it is a fact that the defense gave up the lead with under 3 minutes. Spin it how you want but that is not debatable. It is also a fact that Ben lead a game winning drive to win that Super Bowl. Spin that however you want but that is a fact.
Here's another news flash, Chief, the team won that game, not just the defense or offense. It couldn't have happened without both units doing their job. Now go cry to someone else about how garbage Ben was. I really don't give two f**ks.

 

LoL. Go back and reread that, and then look at what you said. Then tell Me exactly how P. Manning lead those teams to win the SB. Make it make sense....I will wait. LoL. AGAIN the only thing P. Manning did better than Ben was regular season games. In the playoffs, and SB....they are almost identical. Although a smart Man would know why P. Manning was better in the regular season without Me telling Him. Division. He had nobody in his division. While Ben played in one that has put more times than any 3 teams into the playoffs. Yet You congratulate P. Manning, and down Ben. Again their Playoffs, and SB are almost identical. So Make what you said Make sense. Problem is You can't so You call names.

 

And to think I get accused of being snarky cranky and curmudgeon

Heck about now I’m looking like a good guy to just about everyone but GoldBunny

And she doesn’t really count

 

Crying like he's a victim of something.

He's calling me a liar for responding to an exact quote of what he said. And your post was BS because he didn't like the question.

Neither of us insulted him or called him names. I made a couple posts with a crapload of stats to support my claim, and you calmly asked him a question or two.

Makes sense to me.

Here is Lloyd&Green:

 

Tomlin doesn't get it.....

 

I’ve tried, but I can’t connect the simple dots for you. Your emotions won’t allow you to make sense of what I’ve said because you think I “down Ben” and you’re here to protect his honor like a fanboy.

The point we’re debating is just how important Ben was to the championship teams that he was apart of. I say that those teams were led by the defenses, not Ben and the offenses. A number of you disagree and I think that’s ridiculous. There’s really no denying that the defenses led both the ‘05 & ‘08 teams. Y’all are lying to yourselves.

As I’ve already said, the difference between Peyton and Ben is that those Colts teams were built around Peyton. Ben was a role player on his 2 championship teams while Manning was the franchise guy on his 1 in Indy. Peyton was the unquestioned leader and mvp of that Indy championship team. That wasn’t true for Ben in reference to the Steelers. Neither the ‘05 or ‘08 team was built around Ben nor was he the best player/mvp of either of those teams. In ‘05 Ben was a basically a game manager and by ‘08 he was a little better but not by that much. Ben played in all 16 games in ‘08……he threw for 3300 yards(200 a game) on 60% with 17 tds-15 ints. That’s the guy you’re arguing meant the same to the Steelers as Peyton meant to the colts.


I really question your understanding of the game because if you think that the only difference between Ben and Peyton is regular season stats due to Peyton playing in a weaker division then you have no idea what you’ve been watching for all of these years. They don’t have “nearly identical” playoff stats either. Ben has less tds and almost twice as many ints. If Ben just had half as many playoff-pics the Steelers probably have at least 1 more ring. They’d certainly have more playoff wins during his career.

The response I’d expect from a prepubescent child lol.

Clearly you don’t though. You asked a rhetorical question that everyone clearly knows the answer to. Do you not know what “rhetorical” means? A rhetorical question doesn’t require an answer. I acknowledged your question by invalidating the relevance of it. Noting that Ben had a game winning drive in the sb against the cardinals does not disprove the fact that the defense is what led that team. Y’all have a very immature and remedial understanding of the game. Again, there’s no game winning drive opportunity if the defense hadn’t balled out up until that point. You can’t just ignore the circumstances to give Ben all of the credit for that last drive.

This is all that needed to be said. You could’ve saved the rest of that bs you wrote for your diary. I haven’t “act like” anything. I’ve spoken clear and concise. The defenses is what led the 2 championship teams that Ben was apart of. The only time that the Steelers were ever serious contenders for a championship in n Ben’s career is when the team was led by a dominant defense.

You just said, you agree with that. There’s no disagreeing with it because it’s just the facts. I don’t know where all of this “but let’s not act like……” bs comes from. I don’t deny that Ben made significant contributions and deserves his share of proper respect. You can give Ben his rightful props and acknowledge the fact that those teams were led by the defense all at the same time.

Again, I only make it a point to acknowledge that it was the defense most responsible for those championships to refute this tired argument that Tomlin has underachieved because he didn’t win more with Ben.

 

Gee...there's that pesky quote of yours again in bold. You know, the quote you keep calling me a liar for accusing you of saying it.

The walk into the Hall of Fame on the first ballot quarterback owed everything to those defenses. Ben had nothing to do with it. He only had the second most fourth quarter comebacks in history, including one in the Super Bowl if memory serves me......and it does.

Here. Enjoy the fourth quarter of the Super Bowl and explain how he only has rings because of the defense. Pay special attention to the 13-point lead the defense blew in the fourth quarter. Also pay special attention to the horrific offensive line he was playing behind. The worst offensive line to ever win a super bowl.

Go ahead. Make a fool of yourself some more by bashing Ben.

 

Talk about stupid. P. Manning in 4 SBs = 3tds, and 5ints, and 2 fumbles(yeah he was really leading those teams to victory).
Ben 3 SBs = 4tds, and 5 ints. How does Ben have more Tds in 3 SBs than P. Manning has in 4 SBs...., but Ben's are only thanks to Defense, and P. Manning is all because of him. Read this, and make it make sense. You can't so You just call names , and show Your ignorance.

 

Spoken like a true football savant.
Wow, nothing gets past you. You actually figured out that Ben is better than those guys. That's awfully big of you to concede such a difficult evaluation of talent like that.

Of course, it shouldn't matter how good the quarterback is when all those defenses are so dominant.

By your stated rigid standards, I guess Terry Bradshaw was a passenger on those great 70's teams because he had the greatest defense ever for his entire career, and the greatest collection of talent around him on both sides of the ball that ever graced a football field in the history of the NFL? Did Terry have anything to do with the Steelers winning those 4 Super Bowls with him as quarterback?

I wonder?

 

The Indy team that Peyton won a ring on was built around him. Peyton was the mvp, best player on the team, and the offense was the best unit on the team.

The 2 teams that Ben won rings with were built around the defense. Ben wasn’t the best player on those teams and the offense wasn’t the best unit.

When analyzing Super Bowl winning teams it’s ignorant to only look at the superbowl game itself. There’s no question that Peyton was the mvp of his superbowl winning team in Indy. There’s no question that Ben wasn’t the mvp of his superbowl winning teams. That’s the difference and your Super Bowl stat comparison doesn’t refute those facts.

You
lied when you accused me of saying Ben had nothing to do with the rings. When I said that those defenses are the only reason that Ben has rings, I’m obviously saying that they were the biggest reason. The defense was the mvp(most valuable part) of the team, not the offense. I even further illustrated and supported my position by pointing out that without a dominant defense anchoring the team behind him, Ben never lead the Steelers to title contention. You know that’s the point I was making but since you can’t discredit it or the facts used to support, you act obtuse and pretend as if I literally said “Ben had nothing to do with the team winning rings”.

I never said what’s in bold. You insist on telling this lie because you have nothing to stand on. I stand by exactly what I said. Those defenses are the only reason Ben has rings. You can switch “only” with “biggest” and the point still remains. I haven’t said that Ben didn’t contribute or had nothing to do with it. Im saying that the defenses were the main reason.

You can’t argue against that so you take what I’m saying to the extreme just to have something to argue against.

Hey, if someone asks simple dumbed down questions, they should expect the same caliber of answers. I was asked why the Steelers weren’t able to win with dominant defenses before Ben got there but were able to win with him. I simply answered the question. Ben was better than the guys before him.

Unnecessarily sassy and passive aggressive. Obviously this makes no sense, but you have to make these kinds of leaps in logic to justify disagreeing with the facts.

You’re essentially saying that a defense can’t be dominant unless they can win a superbowl regardless of who their qb is.

Of course Bradshaw was very important and made huge contributions to that Steel Curtain dynasty. Doesn’t change the fact that it’s called the “Steel Curtain Dynasty” based on the FACT that those teams were led by the defense. It was the defense that was the best part of those teams. Bradshaw wasn’t the best player and he wouldn’t have won any rings without that defense. Acknowledging that doesn’t take away from Bradshaw nor does it imply that he had nothing to do with the dynasty. The man called his own plays for all 4 championship teams for goodness sake. Those teams were still led by the defenses though.

 

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Seems there is another protégé of the Narcissistic Personality Disorder type running amuck within the community. Cannot say I am surprised but given the commentary within the previous two pages, I am not.

 

And here you are killing it

 

You had to have sucked your teeth right before you started typing

 

So are we talking football or just posting catty comments and memes?

You could take up their side of their argument and tell me why it’s wrong to say that the defense was the most responsible for the 2 rings won during g Ben’s career.

 

Your words not mine

 

I tried talking football with you in posts #53 and #59 of this thread.

In post #53, I listed a whole bunch of stats showing the high point totals the defenses gave up in every playoff game from 2002 through the end of Ben's career. It shows that many of those "dominant defenses" weren't dominant in the playoffs....just as you claim Ben wasn't dominant in the playoffs.

In post #59, I list all of Ben's accomplishments and his all-time ranks. It shows that he had to be a large part of the team's success.

Also, you say it doesn't matter about the outcome of one game in the super bowl, it's about what they did all season. Yet you completely disregard Ben's regular season stats and all those come from behind wins, game-winning drives, and fourth quarter heroics. A quarterback can't amass all those game-deciding moments if his defenses were shutting everyone down. Again, common sense tells you all you need to know.

You claim that those teams were built around defense, yet Ben managed to end his career as a Top 10 quarterback All-time statistically. That's pretty tough to do playing on teams that build everything around the defense. He was a difference maker on those teams whether you admit it or not.

It matters when you do things. Ben did a lot of things when it mattered most, and in the game-deciding moments of games. He is one of, if not the greatest quarterback in 2-minute situations. Making plays in big moments defines players and drives teams to victory. If you knew anything about football you would understand that.

You didn't address a single thing I posted in posts #53 and #59. You decided to try to make this a shouting match and accuse people of lying and all the other bull$h!t you've been spewing here. You won't respond to any football debate or stats that I posted to bolster my argument in showing you that an All-time quarterback "only won rings because of those great defenses." Yet you accuse everyone else of not wanting to talk about football and insult them. Real classy of you.

So stop saying nobody wants to talk about football. You're the one dodging questions and real football stats backing up claims. You're screaming "Liar, Liar, pants on fire" and puffing out your chest while avoiding any strong, football points backed up with facts and statistics.

Oh, and just so we're clear.....Terry Bradshaw had a lot to do with those 70's Steelers' teams and was one of the reasons they won. He was a huge part of those teams and was the reason they won a couple of them. Anyone that knows his ass from a hole in the ground knows that the quarterback is the most important position on a football team. They have the biggest impact on winning or losing games. Hall of Fame quarterbacks have an even bigger impact on the success of their teams. Only a fool wouldn't understand that. You're lack of understanding of how football works is astounding, while trying to tell everyone how much you know about the sport.