Ronde Barber credits Tomlin

I never laid everything on Ben. I was responding to a Tomlin hater using the typical “Tomlin should’ve won more because he had Ben” talking point. I simply pointed out that when it came to the playoffs, Ben was mediocre to below average.

Those great defenses are the only reason Ben has rings. Those defenses are the reason that Ben played in 3 SBs in his first 7 seasons. That great defense had declined and fallen off a bit after 2010, and coincidentally it’s the last season Ben played in a sb. So when you say they “sht the bed” I wonder what you’re talking about.

After 2010 or so the team was was built around Ben and the focus was more on the offense. That killer b era had good offensive line play. Pouncey, decastro and that crew were a top 10 unit.

 

Fire Tomlin!

 

You say you're not laying it on Ben.....so you lay it on Ben in this post. Sure OK.

The Steelers didn't win a single Super Bowl without him for 25 years. They had lots of great defenses and offensive lines, but didn't win anything until #7's toe hit the turf.

As for saying the defenses **** the bed, there was football played before and after 2010, Those defenses let the team down a ton of times in the playoffs.

Even that legendary defense in 2008 got punked in the second half of the Super Bowl. Take the hate Ben glasses off. They gave up a big lead. The offense had to win it at the end.

By the way, how did that great defense do the year he was in the motorcycle accident and missed part of the season and was messed up and couldn't play well. 8 big wins that year with your great defense, dominant offensive line, and great coach.

They played great regular season defense a lot, but only put a couple really strong years together defensively in the playoffs. They usually underperformed compared to the regular season. It isn't even an argument.

Points allowed in the playoffs since 2002: Not a lot of dominance here.

2002: 33, 34

2004: 17, 41

2005: 17, 18, 17, 10

2007: 31

2008: 24, 14, 23

2010: 24, 19, 31

2011: 29

2014: 30

2015: 16, 23

2016: 12, 16, 36

2017: 45

2020: 48

2021: 42

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/playoffs.htm

 

Ben was a good quarterback

Some games great some games bad

Overall Ben was not elite

 

I agree, but the person I am quoting doesn't think that. He says that the defense won those championships and got to those Super Bowls. Ben was a passenger. He says he had nothing to do with it.

Overall, our "elite" defenses often weren't elite when they were in the postseason. That's all I'm trying to say. I just don't like it when someone tries to lay everything on one guy.

I don't understand why people can't see that there is plenty of blame to go around when things don't work out. Why did those defenses he was talking about win all those championships but defenses before Ben got there never won anything? Isn't there some credit to give to the quarterback that was Top 10 in every passing category imaginable in the history of the NFL, and much higher than that in many of them? How does Ben not get credit for any of it?

I literally don't understand how anyone can think that.

 

The only thing I’ve laid on Ben is the fact that in the playoffs for his career as a whole, he was mediocre to average and maybe even slightly below. I only said that in response to a Tomlin hater claiming that Tomlin is an underperforming coach because he had Ben and didn’t win more.

Now you can continue lying about what I’ve said to justify your little hissy fits, but that’s not my problem.

The ‘05 and ‘08 championship teams were led by the defenses. Ben never went anywhere on a team that didn’t have a dominating defense.

 

Post #51 of this thread. Here is what you said: "Those great defenses are the only reason Ben has rings"

I have nothing to lie about. Those are your words.

The defenses over the years have often been mediocre to below average, to downright awful in the playoffs. Nothing is about one person and saying a Hall of Fame quarterback only got rings because of the defense is flat out ridiculous.

Sorry, but your words are wrong every way imaginable. At least have the nerve to stand by them, or you are the one lying. Try learning something about football and get back to me.

Try reading this and explain how this had nothing to do with going to Super Bowls and winning championships. Maybe you can break this article down an explain how insignificant he was playing the most important position on the field and finishing Top 10 in every quarterback statistic in the history of the NFL when he retired.

Have at it: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...-end-career-as-one-of-top-qbs-in-nfl-history/

 

My memory is quite shot but if that broken memory serves me correctly, didn't that dominant defense give up the lead in that '08 Super Bowl with a little under 3 minutes left only to have mediocre Ben lead the team 88 yards for a touchdown and a Super Bowl win?

 

Yep. That was mediocre Ben playing behind an offensive line that was rated as the worst offensive line to ever win the Super Bowl. I guess he doesn't deserve any credit at all. The defenses carried him his entire career while retiring as one of the greatest QB's ever.

2004 offensive rookie of the year

5th all-time in passing yards

8th all-time in touchdown passes

7th all-time in passer rating

6th all-time in yards per attempt

Ben is one of three quarterbacks ever to throw for at least 50,000 yards and win at least 2 Super Bowls (Tom Brady and Peyton Manning) All playing against each other in the same conference at the same time.

5th all-time in wins

4th all-time in game-winning drives

3rd all-time in fourth quarter comebacks

#1 all-time in wins decided by 6 points or less

Ben's 1402 completions, 64.6% completion percentage, 16,711 passing yards, 119 touchdowns, 94.3 passer rating in the 4th quarter are third in NFL history

5th all-time with 22 postseason games played

7th all-time with 13 postseason victories

5th all-time in postseason passing yards

7th all-time in postseason touchdown passes

I could go on and on......but yeah.....this guy had nothing to do with winning rings.

 

So is Peyton Mannings defense the only reason He won His rings???
Because Ben , and Peyton in the post season is almost identical.

 

Also, as I listed above: Manning, Brady, and Ben were playing against each other at the same time, in the same conference, and they had to go through each other to go to super bowls. They are the only three quarterbacks in history to throw for at least 50,000 yards and win at least two Super Bowls. It makes it even more impressive that the only three to do it were going against each other every year for years. It's absolutely amazing when you think about it.

 

Dude some of these Guys on here are stubborn, and act like Ben banged one of their family members. I've been watching since TB12 was at Qb, and they just don't want to give Him(Ben) credit. Like the Defense didn't drag Bradshaw to His 1st 2 SBs. I've seen this team have number one Defense, and top 3 running games, and go nowhere until Ben showed up. I really don't get the hate.

 

This 100 %

 

Exactly. And by the way, I'm not here trying to say that one thing is to blame. Of course there were times Ben didn't play as well as you would like. Of course the defenses were great many years, but then they would have bad games in the postseason. I love Cowher and think he was a great coach. I love Tomlin and think he is a great coach.

I just don't understand why people can't give credit to everyone that had something to do with the most winning in the modern era of football, and why they have to bash players and coaches. It makes no sense to me.

 

I agree 100 %
Some times people aren't happy unless they have someone to point at, or blame.

 

That last drive for the cardinals gave up the lead because the offense had been stuck in neutral for almost the whole game up to that point. That last pass to Santonio was Ben’s only td pass. The offense had only scored 13 points up until then. The least that they could’ve done was shown up on that last drive. Had they lost that game it would’ve been on the offense.

That cardinals team was real good offensively led by 2 hall of famers with Fitz arguably being the best wr in the league at that point. Him getting loose for a big play doesn’t discredit that defense. The defense was the mvp

Why didn’t you just repeat/quote what I said then? Saying that the defense is what lead those teams to rings isn’t the same as saying ben had nothing to do with it.

You’re the worst kind of liar.

The defense is most certainly the reason for Peyton getting his second ring in Denver. The ring he got in Indy was on a team lead by the offense that was built around Peyton. You can’t say that the ‘06 colts were led by the defense. Peyton was the man on that team unlike Ben and the Steelers during their championship runs in his first 7 years.

 

Not trying to discredit the defense. Just saying they don't win that Super Bowl without Ben. You just don't want to admit it. You said so yourself, if they would have lost it was on the offense. Well they won because of it. No one here is saying he was Joe Montana so maybe you should stop saying he was Trent Dilfer.

 

Grow up and stop lying.

Stop saying I'm a liar. I didn't lie about anything. Maybe you could quote me where I am lying? I am just quoting what you said....your exact words.(Post #51)

I did post your entire quote in Post #53. You're even lying about that.

Be a man and admit you said that Ben only has rings because of those defenses. If you didn't mean that and just said it in frustration, just admit that. But don't call me a liar for using your exact quotes.

If you actually believe that "Those great defenses are the only reason Ben has rings." then stand by that. You said it. Own it.

If you click on my link to everything Ben Roethlisberger has done and were he ranked All-time at the time of his retirement, good luck defending your position. Just in case you missed it.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...-end-career-as-one-of-top-qbs-in-nfl-history/

 

Yeah tell another one.
Peyton Manning in 4 SB....3 tds, and 5 ints.....in His two wins He had 1td, and 2 ints, and 2 fumbles. Yeah Peyton Manning was really leading those teams to SB victory. LoL. Difference is He didn't have the media against him....so people that don't know... just believe what they hear......Please know what You are saying. So if Ben was dragged to SB wins .....so was the mighty P. Manning.

 

Going swimmingly? Based on what a preseason game?

I’m hopeful for this year but this team has proven nothing.

 

That's correct, it would have been the worst collapse in Super Bowl history at that time. I was in the stadium watching that game when Fitzgerald torched the secondary up the middle. Ben single handedly drove them downfield to win that game!!!

 

Re-read your own bs man. If me saying that they wouldn’t have won those 2 rings without those dominant defenses is somehow a discredit to Ben, then how can you say that you’re not discrediting the defense by saying that they wouldn’t have won without Ben?

I never said or implied that Ben was Trent filter, but he and the offense weren’t who led the team. The ‘05 and ‘08 championship teams were led by their defenses. This isn’t even up for debate. It’s a fact. They’re several QBs that they could’ve swapped Ben out for and still win those rings. You can’t say that about the defenses though.

I’ll stop calling you a liar when you stop lying. I’m man enough to say that to your father’s face.

You lied right there, I even put it in bold for you. While I do maintain that the 2 championship teams that Ben played on were led by the defense, I’ve never said “Ben had nothing to do with it”. That’s a blatant bald faced lie you told. Ben was definitely a “passenger” for that first ring but that doesn’t mean he had nothing to do with it. He obviously was a much more integral part of the team in ‘08 but that team was still led by the defense. The defenses were the best units on both of those teams.

You’re the one who spoke out of emotion/frustration(triggered). So can you “be a man” and admit that you’re a liar and apologize for lying over and over? I doubt it.

What a childish argument. I’ll just repeatThose Indy teams were built around and led by Peyton and the offense. That’s the difference. Of the 3 teams that got to the sb with Ben as qb, they were all led by the defense not the offense. When Ben had teams built around him and the offense, he never even made it to the sb. They only got to 1 championship game when the team was led by Ben and the offense.

Based on the 7-2 finish last+ a great draft+ a preseason game. I didn’t say that this team has proved anything. I said that the post Ben turnaround skews to be going quite well.

So much passive aggression and sassiness on a football board is just strange.

 

You're making this harder than it needs to be so I will make it easy for you. Did Ben lead The Steelers on a game-winning drive in the Super Bowl against the Arizona Cardinals? Yes or no?

 

Stop asking difficult questions with simple answers.

He seems to be seeking conflict where there doesn't need to be any.

 

My thoughts exactly.