Post First Preseason/Pre Second Preseason Game Roster Thoughts

OFFENSE:

QB: Ben, Gradkowski, Jones (3)

While I don't think Jones looked good, as a 4th round pick, I don't think you risk putting him on the PS so his spot is secure IMO.

RB: Bell, Dwyer, Redman, LSH, W. Johnson (5)

This group is about as set as it can be. My guess is Dwyer and Redman are fighting for reps after Bell by the end of preseason.

WR: A. Brown, Sanders, Wheaton, Cotchery (4)

This 4 is set. I think there may be spots for 2 more, but more on that later.

TE: Heath, Spaeth, Paulson (1)

What a MESS this position is! We might carry 4 guys here just due to the injuries and question marks associated with the position. My guess is Heath starts on PUP. Spaeth may eventually get the return designation. That leaves us 2 TEs short still.

OLINE: Adams, Foster, Pouncey, DeCastro, Gilbert, Beachum, Malecki (7)

We have yet to find an 8th or a 9th guy. Due to injuries at other positions (TE and Corner) I expect we only carry 8 and put some guys on the PS in case we need them. That being said, Whimper probably gets the #8 right now, but we BETTER look at the waiver wire for another Tackle cause the young guys we have just don't have it.

I think we have 20 spots as givens right now. I don't see anyone on this list above as NOT making the team. The question is who takes the last spots. NEEDS: 1 WR, 1 OLine, 2 TE. There is also potentially 1 additional spot open.

Others in the Running - OFFENSE:

WR: J. Brown, Moye, JD Woods, Gilreath, Dunn

I think J. Brown is currently leading this group with JD Woods running 2nd. Gilreath hurt his stock, Moye didn't do anything that showed he was a difference maker, and Dunn I'm still not sold on. That being said, with us only maybe keeping 8 Olineman, you may see 2 of these guys make the group.

TE: Palmer, D. Johnson, McCoy or Waiver Wire

What a mess. Heath hurt. Spaeth hurt. D. Johnson hurt. McCoy hurt. Whoever makes it from this group probably doesn't make it to the end of the year. Spaeth will be back as will Heath. These guys are fighting for temporary roster spots.

OLINE: Whimper or Waiver Wire

Whimper...really? Nothing else we saw for depth looked any good. We need AT LEAST 1 more guy here. The depth here really has me worried. I actually would take J. Scott back over anyone who could currently be that #8 guy and that is sad.

DEFENSE:

Dline: Hood, Heyward, Keisel, Woods, McLendon, Ta'amu (6)

I think Ta'amu showed enough on Saturday to show why the scouts liked him. We forget that he is behind everyone else due to being on the PUP. This 6 I think is the guys we go to war with.

OLB: Worilds, Jones, Woodley, Robinson (4)

While I really like Baxter's press, these guys all played well enough to keep their roster spots if they continue for the preseason.

ILB: Foote, Timmons (2)

I would love to put some more depth behind these guys as players I think have a given roster spot, and I have my leaders, but this group played very, very well on Saturday. I think we have 5 other guys for 2 or 3 spots.

CB: Ike, Allen, Gay (3)

These guys I think are givens, the question is who goes behind them. Allen still needs to get healthy. Gay, I know alot of people are freaking about him getting beat on Saturday, but that play wasn't on him.

S: Clark, Troy, Shamarko (3)

On defense I think we only have 18 given roster spots at the moment. A lot of this I think comes down to roster makeup. How do we want to use the last spots.

Others in the Running - DEFENSE:

OLB: Carter

Looked fine, but I think he could come down to extra ILB or extra OLB.

ILB: Sylvester, McFadden, Williams, Wilson, Rolle

These guys all looked like they could contribute for the most part. Sylvester's chances are hurt by his injury, but we will probably keep at least 2 of the guys above, maybe 3.

CB: Brown, VanDyke, Hawthorne, Victorian

We have 3 guys, but some injury questions. With probably 10 spots for the secondary there are questions about how many of these guys can make the team. Special team contributions are going to be huge.

S: Cromartie-Smith, Golden

Cromartie Smith hurt his stock, but still looks to be pushing Golden, who I don't count him as a given yet. It may come down to how many LBs and CBs the team keeps.

Practice Squad Bound:

N. Williams
Brian Arnfelt
Alan Baxter

 

that play is squarely on Gay....the TD may have been on Troy and Clark..but Gay was not in zone...he was in coverage...chasing after Cruz...and then missing ther tackle...he does what he is supposed to do...Troy and Clark are not needed as the safety valve......The TD was on the Safeties...but most the damage was on Gay.

HACK

 

Sorry...Wrong. They were in Cover 2 not man. He is supposed to let the guy go at some point. Interestingly enough Hack Troy, Clark, and Lake all agree with me.

 

[video]http://www.giants.com/videos/videos/Cant-Miss-Play-Cruz-57-yard-TD/72d6a4cc-bc6d-45e0-b1b0-e288b3e9dacf[/video]

The video doesn't show Gay "letting his man go" at any point...it shows Cruz run past him at the line of scrimmage and Gay chasing after him all the way to the whiff......Both Troy and Clark gambled and were wrong...and left Gay alone....always going to be a MENTAL mistake. The TD is totally on Troy and Clark..as you said they were in cover two...except neither stayed in their zone...but the corners were all lined up on a man...and Gay was chasing from the snap...just because his help wasn't there...does not mean he is no longer supposed to be able to make a tackle, or play on the ball...it means they are there to help him..not that he gets a free ride

HACK

 

I have never heard you recant a statement, even when proven wrong.

Gay had underneath coverage. He was not in man-to-man and the safeties job was not there to help in case a CB gets beat. Not on this play. Gay's job was to protect against anything underneath, any back shoulder or curl to cruz. The TD is on Troy not because he was late covering Gay's mistake, it on Troy because as he said, and Clark said they were trying to disguise their duties/coverage and was late getting to were they assigned to be.

If Troy had done his job correctly he probably would have had an int and he knows it.

Gays only mistake, was not looking back for the ball. He is one of the best tacklers on the team so missing the tackle is uncommon for him as is being out of position is for Clark & Troy.

Cajun-

 

Landry Jones 1st possession, recovered a fumble

 

Welcome to the board!

 

Are you suggesting that Troy, Clark and Lake are covering for Gay?

 

I don't think cotch is a roster lock at all also unless Dwyer really shows something he maybe out the door as well. You figure he was running against the giants 2nd and 3rd stringers and still couldn't produce. We may only carry 3 RBs and 6 WRs. I don't see them risking losing Brown and Woods. They were high on Clemmons last year and tried to stash him on the PS and the jags later grabbed him up. If those two keep performing like they did against the giants and so far in camp they may force the Steelers hand into carrying 6 or cutting cotch which I'm all for.

 

No Troy even said it was all on him. He gambled and came up and couldn't get back fast enough. It looks like they were in man cover 2 which some of the blame does go to Gay but more so troy. If you are the safety in cover two nobody should even get behind you.

 

I said the TD is on Troy and Clark...they were not where they were supposed to be...but the catch is and missed tackle I still put on Gay....Gay turned and ran full sprint after Cruz from the snap...as was stated by others he never turned to look for the ball...and was in full panic mode from the time Cruz ran passed him.....his only job was Cruz...underneath coverage or not.

Gay is exactly what I have always said he is...a slightly above average corner...and I have always said thats not a bad thing..the league is full of them.....but all this Gay is the best this or that is total BS....There is a reason that AZ let him go after one year....its also the reason they released McFadden after one year (how long did he last on his return?).....its because they are not very good...and AZ cut ties...nothing to do with CAP troubles...they paid them a lot of money to get them away from Pitt...only to discover they way overpaid and that they can get young guys from any place to step in and give them roughly what they are getting for much less.

HACK

 

Not at all....I am suggesting...that when people ask them about that play...they are answering about the TD.....Everyone gets beat in this league...Gay, Troy, Ike, Revis, WOODSON.......they are not pointing fingers at Gay for getting beat..or for not making a tackle....they are saying if the other guys were where they needed to be..that TD does not happen

What I am saying is just because Troy and Clark were out of position...not where they were supposed to be....doesn't give Gay a get out of jail free card....Gay was not playing a spot...and a blown coverage left Cruz all alone....Gay chased Cruz all the way .....his job is still to make a play on the ball, still to make a tackle when asked.....He did neither...

HACK

 

Understand you now.

 

If you go back and watch the film of the play W. Gay in fact made a play on the ball. He gambled on knocking it down and missed it.

I'm not a William Gay apologist, I just think he's better than he's given credit for by the whipping post crew. He is as you stated, a CB with slightly above avg skills. That's not a bad thing.

Eli and Cruz are gonna beat a lot of DBs this year.

Cajun-

 

thats a fair enough assertion that he whiffed at the ball....although since he never turned his head...I think he most likely never saw it till it was in Cruz's hands...and he hoped to knock it free..hard to tell...

Like I said...the league is full of Will Gays....I would even say every roster has at least 1....My problem with him has always been...he has reached his ceiling..and has no where to go but down...he is what he is....and every snap he takes is one more snap taken away from a younger, more athletic, higher ceiling guy.


HACK

 

But if that younger guy isn't as good as gay at this moment then what's the point of him being out there.

 

Whats the point of the young guy playing.....two words...Keenan Lewis....Keenan was stuck behind Gay...because Gay was playing better.....Then When Keenan finally got on the field...he became what the Saints are referring to as "the best defensive FA on the market" this year...a market that included William Gay....that had two teams looking at Gay...the Browns and the Steelers....Horton wanted to bring Gay in as well....

I have never made it a secret that I want Gay off the team...that is still true....thats not to say that he is not serviceable....but I want game changers CB.....if Gay is my #5 CB....I am a happy boy...because you can't get that kind of talent that deep very often....if he is my #2 or #3...then I am pretty upset..because I want better on the field..... IMO Gay should never be anything more than plan B.

HACK

 

Lewis was given the chance to beat out Gay in training camp and failed miserably.

 

So you are saying Gay is a better player than Lewis? You would rather have Gay than Lewis?

Ben was being abused in camp his first year....Batch and Maddox were making Ben look real bad....then Batch got hurt....Ben went to #2...then Maddox went out against Baltimore...and then Ben went on a 14 game win streak......sometimes you need live fire.....heck...Lewis lost his head and ended up in Tomlins dog house.....yet when Worilds loses his head in game...I read on here...that people like to see his fire.

I am saying that YES I do believe Gay stunted Lewis growth.....its just my opinion.

HACK