Pickett ranked worst first rd QB in last 5 years

Steelers offense had the killer instinct with Ben at QB for Bengals, Colts and Broncos in post season of '05. Whisenhunt took the cuffs off....at least in the first half of the games and the offense was generating points. Steelers barely got in the playoffs that year and didn't have anything to lose and were a long shot to even make it to the AFC Championship. I don't understand why we couldn't have that mindset since 2021 to present. All of the playoff teams since 2021 have been underdogs and severely outmatched by their opponents.... Chiefs, Bills, Ravens and Texans. Steelers were still playing "not to lose" in all of those games. The results were not surprising. Something drastic needed to be attempted. The defense sucked in most of those games... so the offense needed to do something other than the usual.

 

A team needs to be able to adapt to the league, but unfortunately, we've been behind for several years now... We'll see if that changes; I have serious doubts, but I'll give McCarthy and his staff a chance.

I remember under Cowher, the Steelers were ahead of the league in terms of defense and their 3-4 defense, and it helped to have middle to late-round picks like Joey Porter, Aaron Smith, etc.

 

maybe

 

I mean....you likely know the answer.

Ben R was at the helm of the of offense on the field. And whenever that was the case, the team largely attacked or tried to.

When they have had less good options at QB, the team pulled back. They had to in order to provide those lesser options a platform for whatever success they may have had. You can't have Justin Fields throwing it all over the yard.

And that is my point. For as long as I can remember, the Steelers look at their roster each season and figure out how to win the most number of regular season games with that roster. Then they try to execute that plan. Whatever it may be. Then they get to the playoffs, and whatever happens happens.

They do not tend to build out three year plans or whatever. Each season seems to be a single scenario that is solely focused on winning as many regular season games as possible. Once you make the playoffs, they seem to operate on the "hope we get hot and ride a streak all the way through".

From 2021-current, they do not think they have the point person at QB to do anything more than avoid disaster and hope to get enough breaks to steal a victory each week. And they seem to be correct in that assumption on the field. The big error in that line of thinking, at least for me, is in the team building approach. It is how you get a RB drafted in the first round. Or a second round pick on a TE you don't use. Or playing mix and match with your available OL instead of running out a group and seeing if they can develop. Whatever thing you want to pick out.

It is a not a great way to run the team. But they have been doing it for my entire lifetime....they are not going to change.

 

They had those picks because the rest of the NFL didn't value "tweener" edge players since they were all playing a different style of front. The fact that you can not get those players later in the draft means the rest of the NFL has found ways to value and play those body types.

Not sure it invalidates the Steelers line of thinking like you seem to hint that it does.

 

True, and that was my point... The Steelers were ahead of the curve defensively at that time, and they deserve credit for that advantage.

Since stretching the defense became the norm in the NFL in the early 2010s, the Steelers haven't had the answers against good offense with a good OC, and not just against Brady.

 

I thought Steelers should have went to a 4-3 defense after losing SBXLV. It would have made a lot of sense at the time, since Brady and Rodgers were best QBs during that period and they seemed to stumble against 4-3 teams like the Giants... and excel vs 3-4 teams like the Steelers. There were exceptions like the 3-4 Von Miller Broncos of 2015.... but Brady's Kryptonite was stout 4-3 D-lines that could get pressure up the middle and from the edge... throwing off his timing. Ravens were capable of running a hybrid 4-3 with Suggs, Ngata and company... so naturally they performed better vs Brady than Steelers ever did. 4-3 DEs are easier to obtain in the draft... and are usually more "NFL-ready" than 3-4 OLBs... who take more time to acclimate to the schemes.

 

I don't think the 4-3 would've been then or now some magic answer. Pass rushers are difficult to come by no matter what front you are running.

Two of the most recent impact pass rushers, Parsons and Watt, both had draft concerns because they didn't fit all the traditional scouting check boxes for edge players in this or that system. I take it that it is harder and harder to find those players because teams are now far more willing to just draft a "pass rusher" and figure out how to mold a functional defense around that guy later. So no more 'tweener types dropping down the draft board.

For the Giants, that seemed more about putting 4 really good pass rushers on the field at once. Then playing coverage behind it. Did it really matter what alignment that was out of?

For the post 2010's defense there is basically one scheme that is having defensive success currently. Some version of what Fangio dreamed up or cobbled together or however you want to view it. Two safeties in the deep(er) middle and flexible coverage schemes around that. Then you get pressure with 4 up front. Teams play that both out of a 4 man line or a 3 man line. And most teams don't really stick to either. Heck, the Steelers play mostly 2 or 4 down almost more than they play 3 down.

Steelers biggest issue has been their refusal to play 2 deep safeties. They want one deep and one playing shallower. Maybe Graham changes that? Don't know. But that has likely been a far bigger difference in the last several years than the number of down lineman that they technically "start" with.

 

Take your analysis of the team one level up the chain. Since the latter days of Noll, I have seen an organization that approaches each season as how do we build the best roster for this current season, win the most number of regular season games, and make the playoffs. Each season is almost independent of the others.

I was not thinking about specific approaches to achieve those goals. Offense, defense, what have you. If the overall strategic priorities remain the same; does it matter if the tactics to achieve them change?

 

Also....no one has really had an answer. At least not an answer that has held up for more than a two season stretch.

 

Some teams are much better against those offense that the other.Like when defense like the steelers and ravens were great at the same time,in the 2000s until the early 2010s,Brady had some struggle against the ravens defense but he had the number of the steelers defense...Of course,one of the big reason was because the ravens were a much better man coverage team

Since that time maybe it did not happen like three years in a row, but teams like Seattle in 2013, no one with a spread offense had any success against them. In fact, it was a nightmare, just like the Saints and Broncos that year.

Currently, Houston and Seattle are great against it, the same goes for the Ravens when they had Mike McDonald as their DC especially in 2023..same for the Eagles in 2024.

So we're seeing teams that can have success against this type of offense.

 

A year at a time. Then the next season, or at most two, the defense is no longer successful.

In general, you are seeing the defenses that succeed riding one or more of the following:

• incredible play by individual players. Then those players get older or hurt.
• An entire roster of talented pieces. Then those pieces get more expensive and/or older and the defense breaks down.
• Coverage and DB play is highly variable season to season. You have seasons where it comes together and then you are not able to repeat it.

I do not see a consistent run of dominance by any one defense or "type" of defense. Just individual blips.

Maybe the Niners a handful of years ago? But it seems like that was driven by Warner more than anything else...

 

I DO NOT agree with much of this. Good DTs in the 4-3 get better pressure from the middle than NT/DEs in the 3-4....different responsibilities. Still think 4-3 was a better defense against the GOAT than the 3-4. Stopping Brady was the key to Super Bowl berths for Steelers and it was either done by injury to Brady himself ('08) or another team taking the Patriots out ('10 Jets, '05 Broncos)...so Steelers didn't have to.

Didn't matter how good Porter, Haggans, Harrison or Woodley was at OLB... Steelers couldn't get to Brady fast enough to beat Patriots in the post season.

Look no further than Aaron Donald or Jalen Carter. Now those type of interior DTs could stop Brady in his tracks.

 

You used the example of the Giants. They didn't play DT's. They played 4 DE's in passing situations.

The Steelers for much of the Patriots era played pass rushing DT's instead of run plugging NTs. We can discuss how those players were not all that effective.

I'm not arguing that the Steelers had a good defense against Brady. Few did. And I think the original implication that somehow a 4-3 was some Brady panacea was wide of the mark.

 

I agree with your point regarding 2 safeties deep. Absolutely that should be an option for the former Raiders DC this year with Steelers. But that's all I agree with.

 

Was Najee Harris, the best long term NFL player available when he was drafted? Or was he the BEST attempt to insulate an aging QB from having to carry the offense?

One is a short term decision. One is a long term decision.

Same with Pat Friermuth. Same with many draft picks over the last handful of years.

It seems the last two drafts have stepped away from this and rather than plug holes, they are building a foundation. What will happen in 2026?

The past 6 seasons is because the Steelers have either had Matt Canada calling plays or a boat anchor playing QB. What offense would anyone propose that Justin Fields run that would be successful? How should the Steelers have modified their Russell WIlson chucks it deep offense to be more successful? I can not think of a way.

It seems you are arguing for a magic wand that makes the available talent better...does that exist?

 

Michael Strahan, Osi Umenyiora, Justin Tuck, and Jason Pierre Paul. Those were the guys the Giants rode to success. None of which are DT's.

The innovation they were praised for was pushing one or more them inside on passing downs.

I got no qualms with the idea that interior pressure was successful against Brady. It is successful against almost every QB ever. The Steelers didn't generate enough of it in that era. Again, no issue there.

The Giants are not an example of the schematic superiority of a 4-3 approach. They're 4 guys were just really good.

 

The answer is simple, to win games when You don't have the talent at QB to do it. It tricked so many of You, that many thought Fields had turned a corner. It makes me laugh that people believe that a HC should do something to lose a game instead of win one. That's the true nature of a HC, win with what you have. Yet many of you make it sound like a bad thing. LoL. Some of You act like well we don't have a quality Qb so f**k it , just give up, and lose.

 

You can point to the oscillation between Hodges in Rudolph that one year as a direct counter to avoiding risk.

The team specifically stated that Hodges was on the field because he would just chuck the dang thing and hope to make something good happen.

Look at why the team, at least publicly, said Wilson got the nod over Fields. Again, because Wilson was willing to launch his "moonball" and try and make a big play.

Who knows with the whole KP/Canada era. We all can recite how flawed and broken that was in so many ways.

And with Rodgers? There is a mountain of data that unless Tomlin and other members of the Steelers staff were calling plays at the end in GB and with the Jets....that is how Rodgers plays now.

I haven't like how the Steelers play offense since sometime in the twenty teens. It makes me want to hit my head with a blunt object every time they have the ball. But, I am not clear on what else they could be doing with the aging and talent deficient individuals they have had playing QB for most/all of the twenty twenties.

 

It's so freaking funny that people are ok with a losing season, and not make the playoffs, but to make the playoffs, and lose is a bad thing. LoL. Strange way of thinking. If it was any other HC of a different team you people would say.....well he always has them in the mix, but somehow your line of thought has changed to I'd rather lose. LoL.

 

If people actually understand what they see they would have understood the whole difference in how we played 3-4 earlier, and how we played it later came from having to face Brady. People act like the Steelers were the only team to lose to Brady, and the Pats. LoL

 

Richardson hasn't shown he can even do that.

Aside from throwing him to the wolves in his first NFL start, Tomlin didn't give Pickett the opportunity to do more outside of cutting him loose a few times late in games. That's where the "Fourth Quarter Kenny" thing came from.

You are correct that Tomlin's brand of football isn't going to get it done in the playoffs.