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Mahomes...

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by steel_ben7, Nov 29, 2020.

  1. defva

    defva Well-Known Member

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    Brady and the patsies part 2!
     
  2. AFan

    AFan Well-Known Member

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    Not sure who I dislike more: The Mask Police or the Is-it-is-or-is-it-ain't-a-Stiller-post Police
     
  3. Da Stellars

    Da Stellars Well-Known Member

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    Is Stefen Wisniewski on the Chiefs again? ... dang.

    I wish he could have found his way back to Pittsburgh roster.
     
  4. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    Cowher didn't walk into a good situation? I'd say he did. Cowher didn't believe in a franchise qb & that got in his way. Bill went & got a franchise rb. He was just as good as Tomlin at not participating in the SB..

    Noll drafted both a franchise qb & a franchise rb early in the draft. It paid dividends. Tomlin took a swing with Bell pretty early while having Ben. Can't remember Bill taking a swing for a qb early in the draft until he was told to.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2020
  5. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    Great now he will tell KC all our secrets to beat us
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Kirkland

    Kirkland Well-Known Member

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    Anytime you get hired by the Steelers you’re walking into a good situation because they have the best ownership in the league. But was Cowher’s setup as good as Tomlin’s? Absolutely not and I don’t think anyone’s has been.

    They were a year removed from winning the super bowl and the trump card right off the bat is that he inherited a hall of fame, super bowl winning quarterback going into only his 4th year. You also had on offense a future hall of fame receiver in Ward and arguably the best all around Tight End of his era in Miller. Then you have the ready made defense with the likes of Smith, Hampton, Keisel, Farrior, Taylor, Clark and Polamalu. And they were led by a hall of fame coach in Lebeau. (who cowher brought on as a defensive backs coach in 92 originally)

    Noll drafted Bradshaw with the first overall pick. Cowher and the Steelers really weren’t in a position to got one of the coveted, first round quarterbacks until 04 (which is kind of a testament to him) when they drafted Ben. The highest pick Cowher ever had in his tenure was the 8th pick in 2000 and the only quarterback drafted in the first round that year was Chad Pennington who I don’t think would’ve been a savior for them by any stretch. That draft was actually a damn good one for them though. With their first 3 picks they drafted Burress, Marvel Smith and Joey Porter. Not too shabby.

    And Tomlin didn’t really take a swing with Bell. He got him in the 2nd round. A more accurate example of that would be Mendenhall who they drafted in the first round. (and whiffed on) Tomlin is a really good coach but he walked into an absolute dream scenario the likes of which are practically unheard of.

    Cowher I feel maximized his teams moreso. No better example of that then Super Bowl 30. Even with them losing that onsides kick is one of the great calls of all time and they had all of the momentum in that second half complete with shutting down Emmitt Smith for the most part. But to my original point we all know what happened. Neil O’Donnell happened.
     
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  7. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    Cowher had some no playoffs possible seasons with his football acumen, Tomlin hasn't. Personally i think Bill was a better coach of football, especially in the linebacker department. Tomlin might be better with the overall picture; drafting, focus, getting the most out of fringe players.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Kirkland

    Kirkland Well-Known Member

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    Cowher having Ben at quarterback for 3 of his 15 years had something to do with that.
     
  9. 86WardsWay

    86WardsWay Well-Known Member

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    I wonder how many of the 30 remaining teams have their main forum with a Mahomes thread?
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 1
  10. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    So he needed Ben to be in the playoffs? Didn't he make the playoffs without Ben quite a bit? We'll see if Tomlin tries to function without a franchise qb, goes balls out to get one or just gets out while the gettings good.
     
  11. Kirkland

    Kirkland Well-Known Member

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    Obviously not but having a hall of fame quarterback is a rather huge factor in a team’s success which makes Cowher’s resume all the more impressive. This is not a controversial take.

    If only those great 90’s Steeler rosters had Ben at the helm instead of O’Donnell and Stewart.
     
  12. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    The controversial part is that Cowher didn't think he needed an all-star at qb. Coming from a different era of how the game was played i can see his reasoning. Remember he was a run first then run again coach. Nobody can say he would have Ben sending wrs to the probowl every year. Looking back O'donnell wasn't a terrible qb in Cowher's system. Bill made the decision to go with Slash at qb but didn't really cater the offense around him. He made sure the defense was up to the challenge of winning the game for him.

    Tomlin has had the luxury of an elite offense and he has used it correctly, for the most part. His defense grew old on him & he struck out with some key injuries & draft reaches.

    The two are basically neck to neck in career wins with Bill having the edge in the playoffs & Tomlin with the edge in the regular season. One more good playoff run & Tomlin shines even brighter.

    The onus is on Ben & the offense with today's style of football with some help from the defense not getting their asses handed to them. Maybe an offensive coach should be the next underachieving, out of his depth cheerleader to take the reins of this storied franchise.
     
  13. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    Steelers had the opportunity to get a great QB in 1983 and passed.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. TerribleTowelFlying

    TerribleTowelFlying Staff Member Site Admin

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    Much worse. So much worse.
     
  15. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    This sounds like 2017 all over again
     
  16. Kirkland

    Kirkland Well-Known Member

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    It was a different era and Cowher was all about the power running game but make no mistake if he could’ve added an elite quarterback to the team he of course would’ve. (like any halfway sensible coach would) Like I pointed out they were never really in position to get one until 04. The highest pick in his tenure was 8th overall with an absolutely barren landscape for quarterbacks that year.

    Though it’s not like he wasn’t willing to open things up once he had the personnel to do it with Burress and Ward leading the way. And he did it with Tommy The Gun Maddox of all people. They had a fleeting year of success with that but as we know they subsequently crashed and burned. Luckily though that resulted in them drafting Ben and the rest is history.


    Honestly I don’t think that happened until they hired Haley. That backyard football Arians was about was going to get Ben killed eventually.

    One has had a hall of fame quarterback at his disposal for his entire coaching career. The other had one for 3 years. (one of which being his rookie year) Very hard to overstate how big of a factor that is.

    I think Tomlin will stay on for a while after Ben retires. Then we’ll have a clearer gauge on the Cowher Tomlin comparison.
     
  17. Kirkland

    Kirkland Well-Known Member

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    A lot of teams did that year.
     
  18. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    Chiefs have had 4 games within 1 score.

    Chargers 3-8 (won by 3 in OT)
    Panthers 4-8 (won by 2)
    Raiders 6-5 (won by 4)
    Bucs 7-5 (won by 3)

    steelers have had 6 games 1 score or less.

    Broncos 4-7 (won by 5)
    Texans 4-7 (won by 7)
    Titans 8-3 (won by 3)
    Ravens A squad 6-5 (won by 4)
    Cowboys 3-8(won by 5)
    Ravens C squad 6-5(won by 5)


    Chiefs victories over winning opponents:
    Bills 8-3
    Buccaneers 7-5
    Ravens 6-5
    Raiders 6-5

    steelers victories over winning:
    Browns 8-3
    Titans 8-3
    Ravens 6-5


    Chiefs blowout wins:


    Steelers blowout wins:
    Browns 38-7
    Bengals 36-10
    Jaguars 27-3

    Texans 34-20
    Ravens 34-20
    Patriots 26-10
    Broncos 43-16
    Jets. 35-9
     
  19. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    I'll have to disagree with this part. Cowher didn't think too highly of the passing game. He was interested in olinemen & defense. The qb was there to hand the ball off to his franchise player Bettis.
     
  20. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Haley introducing Ben to longevity. Haley's redzone attempts really damaged the Steelers imo.
     
  21. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    I think you're overstating the difference in the way the game is played in their eras. No way i see Cowher giving Ben 35-50 pass attempts a game. Ben probably is another O'donnell with Cowher's philosophy playing in the 90s. No chance for Steeler passing records or the dependency on how well he plays.

    I'll go far enough to say that Ben isn't a HOFer if he played for Cowher in the 90s. If Cowher coached him in the 2000s then it's a different story.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2020
  22. Kirkland

    Kirkland Well-Known Member

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    So he wouldn’t draft an elite first round quarterback if he could while not having one already? Of course he would and he and the team did when one was finally available.
     
  23. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    Dan Rooney did. Cowher would have drafted an olineman.
     
  24. Kirkland

    Kirkland Well-Known Member

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    I’m not saying they would’ve gone all Run and Shoot if they had a player like Ben in the 90’s but they definitely would’ve have a more balanced attack. But the crux of my point is that I think those 90’s Steeler teams would’ve been significantly better and won more big games if they had their present day hall of fame quarterback instead of O’Donnell or Stewart.

    You’re saying I’m wrong in that assessment?
     
  25. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    No, you have a very good point. O'donnell made it to a SB, could have been more if he stayed imo. He threw away his SB MVP chance when it counted. Twice. :facepalm: His receivers didn't help him with being on the same page but i thought he fired a little early both times.

    I'll retract my Ben isn't a Hofer in the 90s under Cowher. He has proven that he is.
     

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