Joey Porter Jr contract negotiations

Correct, there would be no difference whatsoever. Even if he signed for say 25 million per, he should be very well set.

I see that isn’t always the case, AB is now selling sex tapes for money.

 

Do you realize how much money that is? Even 25 million.

 

Hmm
I thought the concept was
BEING SIGNED

 

11?

 

I also only found out about this in the last year or so.

Sucks that so many athletes end up being terrible people.

 

Do you realize how much $5 million is? That's what some of y'all are implying that Porter should give up, just to be a team guy. This is after watching the team pay two inferior players on defense. This is after watching his team's leaders holding in for more money. Y'all are very generous with what would be another man's money.

 

I’m saying there reaches a point it is all or mostly ego.

If you make 32 million one year and

30 million the next, your quality of life will not be altered.

 

Not my choice, but we overpaid Watt as well.

 

Without a doubt, and that was worse. I'd much rather see them overpay a young player they can build around than an older one who is clearly past his prime.

 

Now he is only participating in certain drills at practice

 

That argument goes both ways. Are you not being generous with the owners money? The two team leaders holding in had a lot more tenure than Joey. I think he just went about this too soon and also wasn’t transparent. They didn’t fake injuries. They had slit more accolades under their belt. There needs to be some compromise on both sides. I’m not sure that’s happening on either side. The bottom line is the team has shown a willingness to be very fair with every other player even signing lesser players as you say. As a result why are they digging in their heals with JPJ? It makes me question JPJ. Is he an issue in the locker room?do they just not value him like he values himself? Do they not value the position or do they feel really strong about Everett coming up? At the end of the day I really be;urge the Porters made this emotional and the old man is behind a lot of this. It’s a shame.

 

I have not heard what Joey did at practice today. I believe today was supposed to be a Full Pads practice Thursday.

 

Two team leaders holding in set an example. It feels like some of you don't want anyone to have any accountability other than Porter.

Those team leaders were also declining values. Watt has declined significantly. Heyward can't evade time forever. Porter is just now entering his prime.

I haven't seen evidence of either side compromising, but the Steelers were foolish to play their usual waiting game. The Steelers tend to play this waiting game with the big contracts, so it is ridiculous to start making **** up about Porter to try to justify the Steelers' handling of this negotiation. It would be even more ridiculous to put that kind of faith in Everette after seeing him get toasted so often in college.

Waiting until the last minute to make a lowball offer while the cornerback market exploded was foolish.

Regarding the team's money, they are going to have to spend it somewhere. Why not on a young cornerstone player?

 

And even if he isn't, NFL contracts don't work this way.

Top 5 contract doesn't necessarily mean top 5 player.

Because the inflation in the cap is insane. And many players are "trapped" on rookie deals that dramatically under pay them (if they are good)...like the contract Porter is currently playing on.

 

If someone thinks that they should tag Porter next season (and the season after that) if he doesn't sign the extension, then it's basically the same thing as believe that he's worth at least ~ $31mm/year on a 4 year extension (as shown in the math done above).

It's different if someone thinks the team should let him walk after this year (or maybe after 1 tag). Then it's saying he just isn't worth the money.

I think it's hard for people to understand the effect that (1) cap inflation and (2) UFA has on NFL contracts.

Especially if they look at it as the top X players should have the top X contracts. Particularly given how underpaid high quality players on rookie contracts (like Porter) are relative to market value.

 

And many who thought that Bell saved the team from itself.

 

And it's not $1MM. It's $1MM / year.

And when you are in the NFL at that level, I bet a lot of guys aren't just thinking about themselves. They're thinking about generational wealth.

Especially a guy who (presumably) grew up understanding how awesome his life was because his Dad earned generational wealth by playing football.

 

That isn't true.

Let's say someone is thinking about using the fact that they "won the lottery" by being in the NFL AND being a high end player at their position AND grew up with a father that provided an amazing life for his son (presumably) because of the insane amount of money he was paid in the NFL understands the value that this kind of money has not just over their lifetime, but across the lifetimes of their children, and theirs, and theirs, etc. I won't make more money than Porter did on his rookie deal, but this is how I'm trying to think about the money that I'll make over my lifetime.

Let's say that player is thinking that extra $5MM would go to their kids (unborn so far) in 30 years from now. Most players probably don't think like this, but Porter is in an interesting situation this year because he got massive benefits from his dad being generationally wealthy.

They lose 50% off the top for taxes and agents and all that stuff. So it's $2.5MM. In 30 years, that money would double every 8-10 years or so in just a normal index fund portfolio...let's think 3 doublings to make it easy. So in 30 years, that extra money isn't the $2.5 they took home. It's $10MM.

Maybe that player thinks of just that as an amazing gift they give to their kids. Maybe they think about another 3 doubling so they can give it to their grand kids.

Maybe the player isn't future-oriented. And instead, they use this "extra" money as the money they give to charity. Formal stuff that's going to buy a **** ton of good will (kids cancer treatments, building a football program for less fortunate kids, giving money to teachers that helped them along the way) or informal stuff to give back to their family / community (e.g. we often hear about buying homes and cars for parents...probably not an issue for Porter).

I'm sure this is also true for NFL players, but I remember an interview with someone on the Raptors saying that most players pretty much mindlessly spend their first NBA contracts. So even if someone was just wildly spending money, this "extra" few million dollars is easily enough to last a normal person the rest of their lives. So they could pretty literally spend the rest of their massive total income on whatever the legal equivalent of hookers and blow is and still be set for life. Not the path I'd choose, but I also wouldn't have chosen to try to go to the NFL because the chances of success are basically zero.

Also worth remembering that I also agreed that that ego is certainly also a part of this.

My take on compensation in the NFL is that players are basically selling life and health span (because these things are going to be shorter for NFL players) when they step on to the field. I don't begrudge anyone for selling the most important thing they have for as high a price as they can get. I also don't begrudge teams for trying to get that thing for as little as possible.

And if the way people look at it is "didn't they make enough money already", then why not ask why any high pedigree player plays for a 2nd contract at all? Doesn't the same argument say that he should play his second contract for no money at all? At the end of this season, Porter will have already made ~ $10MM. I'm guessing this is more money than any of us will make in our working lifetimes (over a 30 year career, that's an average annual income of $333,333/year). Not some unattainable number (theoretically), but I don't think it's a number I'll ever see in a year...nevermind an average over 30 years.

Why does he need to get paid at all?

Hell, isn't this true for basically anyone who has a full time job in the US? If you make something like $33k/year, you're in the global 1%. For a full time job (2,080 hours), that's $15.86 / hour. Why should anyone need to be paid more than the global 1% threshold? This is the question that some random Haitian (or somewhere) is going to ask when they see the wages that Americans earn.

The answer is that people get paid based on the market value of their skills (which hopefully doesn't rapidly drop to ~ $0 as we get better and better AI).

Turns out that Joey Porter Jr's skills mean that his market value is at least ~ $31MM / year on a 4 year extension of his current contract. I think probably higher because I think the math I did upthread underpays him on the 2x non cost-controlled years. If we think he's greedy for wanting his market value, it probably means that most Americans with a full time jobs are greedy too.

 

Important distinction in my opinion. JP is a top five corner contract candidate. Undisputed top 5 cb based purely on perfromance ( debateable)

 

I would argue that they do make generational wealth.

But many blow through it.

Porter's made $10MM on his rookie contract. I think players usually say that they only take home about half of their income after taxes and work related expenses (like agent fees and wellness stuff).

So $5MM.

You'd expect that living off of 4% of that per year ($200k per year) is probably going to last in perpetuity. But in the worst historical timelines (I think it's < 1% of timelines historically), you would run out of money if you invested in something like 75% large US equities (e.g. SP500) and 20% US bonds. Keep in mind that this doesn't require any savings, so this is $200k / year of just spending.

I live a pretty great life with a family of 5 spending less than half of this per year (after taking out retirement savings, but including taxes in "spending"). So it's absolutely not hard for just what he's earned so far to pay for him the rest of his life with a very high probability that he has an enormous inheritance to give to his children.

And he's about to sign a contract that's going to be more than 10x what he made in his rookie contract. It will have at minimum something like $30MM guaranteed and probably close to twice that fully guaranteed (Witherspoon got $59MM fully guaranteed).

So in the absolute worst case scenario, he inks that deal and has a total lifetime earnings of ~$70MM...again let's say $35mm take home. In a super easy boggleheads type portfolio, your 4% is now $1.4mm / year you can spend without really worrying that you'll run out of money if you even half way pay attention to what's going on (in a bad market year, maybe you ratchet down to $1mm/year spending for a couple years).

If he finished out the contract, his total earnings would be something like $140mm (rookie deal + entire 2nd contract). Then all the numbers in the paragraph above double...it's probably more than that because the fixed costs for things like massages probably cap out at some income level (if you're not D Watson...).

There's no legit excuse not to pass down an insane amount of money to your children. And if you also give them a very basic financial education (I'd recommend reading a book like The Simple Path to Wealth by JL Collins), there should be no way in hell they run out of money either (though they might have to only live off a few hundred thousand to live on if they never work a day in their lives).

The problem is that getting this insane amount of wealth quickly (especially when you are young) seems to be a great way to just destroy people. Just because it's practically limitless money doesn't mean that it's actually limitless. And I'd imagine that the leaches come out in droves.

 

On the surface and from the outside, I agree with what you’re saying. But there has to be more to this we don’t know about. Is JPJ being unreasonable? Is there something about JPJ they don’t like? Watt at least wasn’t considered a declining asset when he held in for sure on the first one. From a fan perspective it’s very frustrating. I’m pissed at both the team and the player. The odd thing is they handed out all of these extensions this year and now with their best player they all the sudden dig their heels in. It doesn’t make sense which makes me believe JPJ is the one being unreasonable.

 

nah.. its not an important distinction. If JPJ was middle of the pack I think he would have signed a middling contract already.

When you are top 5 during contract negotiations the numbers are much higher.

 

this isn’t true. Most NFL players go broke because most of them aren’t making 25 to 30 mill a year. The average NFL career is still under 4 years.

But for those who get a $100 mill contract and make most of that money. That’s generational wealth.

The problem is a lot of players don’t invest in boring things that give them a 10% return. They look for the flip or just think that next contract is coming so they spend spend spend and when that last contract ends, they are ass out.

Put it this way, I’m far from rich but I started investing in my kids college funds as soon as they were born. If I had NFL money and started with just 1 mill, or 500K, or even 250K in a brokerage account for 18 years.. that’s real money for the next generation.