Haskins will Start, Dobbs BU QB.

So we're comparing a fresh Rudolph in a preseason game to a worn out Ben in the last game of the season. Seems a fair comparison.

Depends on what version of the truth you're talking about.

 

Fact is dobbs couldn’t cut it in Jacksonville as a 3rd stringer yet some of you act like he’s this deadly weapon and hidden gem ready to take off, My god.

another fact is Ben was given an ultimatum for his garbage play, I see some people want to forget it already. He literally threw us out of the playoffs.

 

I am going with Bill Arnsprarger and to use tweener types that could play the run and guard the pass .. The problem is it uses a lot of smoke and mirrors as in todays NFL the guy dropping is no match for the guy he is covering ..OC'S are much smarter and a student of the game QB knows the mismatch and the weak spots before the ball is even snapped ..

What is your answer ?

 

Everything I have seen has pointed 2 this type of 3-4 (not the 3-4 in general)designed 2 stop the west coast offense. Designed by Dick LeBeau
Not saying Your wrong, but the sometimes version of the 3-4 we have been running (of course it has evolved) came from there. Designed during His stint as the DC in Cincinnati.

 

I think the Ben wore down narrative is over blown... not that he didn't start to.. but the effect of it is being over blown

If anything I think the defense wore down.

In the first 11 games the defense gave up 23 points or more 3 times

In the last 6 games including playoffs they gave up 23 or more all 6 times

Bens stats in the last 5 games (Mason played one)

156/245 1504 yards. 12 TD 8 INT
QBR 82.44

Last 2 threw for 842 yards 7 TD 4 INT
QBR 92.46

The defense gave up 72 points to the Browns the last 2 games (65 if you take away the snap into endzone)

778 yards and 8 TDs against Cleveland to end the year.

So the narrative is last 2 games
CLEVELAND 778 YARDS 8 TD. THERE IS A NEW KING OF THE NORTH

BEN 842 YARDS 7 TD WORE DOWN OLD MAN

HACK

 

The defense was missing Bush, Dupree, and Haden in the playoff game against the Browns, Alalu, and Spillane both played bad after coming back from injury.

 

Mason played against better competition than Haskins so it is apples to apples. Mason did better our last regular season game with a similar line up on our side against an historic need to win for the Stains at their house. I still haven't seen Haskins play like a first round QB ever.

 

It's really puzzling why the Steelers even bothered to bring Haskins in. They must have liked him out of Ohio State or something because he didn't show much of anything worthwhile with WFT

 

Free ex 1st rounder.

 

It's like showing up at Talladega to watch the practice laps and an owner handing you the keys to one of the racecars and telling you why don't you take it for a quick spin. You're kinda baffled at first but you have to give it a try all the while hoping that it has proper inflated tires and a secure lug nuts even though Goober from Mayberry may have just been working on it. You just roll the dice and keep believing everything will be ok as you reach speeds of 200 MPH.

 

People have short memories. You can find on YouTube Kiper and many others saying Haskins should be the #1 pick over all

People on this board were saying if your going to trade up. Why get Bush when you can get Haskins.

Many of the talking heads thought when the trade was announced it was a move up to get their QB of the future.

Had the Steelers drafted Bush and Haskins both in the first round people would have been dancing in the street

But here we are the start of season 3 and they want Haskins cut and wonder if Bush was worth it and if he even will be good after the knee.

For the record....I think Mason did nothing to lose the job.... but I also don't feel he won the job.

This was only Haskins 2nd preseason after covid last year...and I felt he looked at least like he belongs in the conversation vs Mason.

Look at the preseason production

BEN 3 DRIVES. 2TD 8/10 137yrds

MASON 9 DRIVES 3FG 27/36 298yrds

HASKINS 18 DRIVES 5TD 3FG 1 end of game knee. 37/58. 379yrds

DOBBS 9 DRIVES 1TD 2FG 1 end of game knee

HACK

 

I don’t really put much stock in preseason statistics. I think it’s mostly a waste of time. You have to look deeper if you want to pull something meaningful out of meaningless games.

But we can look at his performance with Washington. He was not good. Barely backup quality, and his performance so far with the Steelers has been at most equal to that.

I haven’t been impressed with much of his game; his accuracy, decision-making, pocket presence, etc. are subpar. Aside from arm strength, he doesn’t have the tools at this point, and there’s little to suggest he’s developing significantly.

Lots of QBs are hyped before the draft only to disappoint. Most of them, probably. And I find it silly when people attach a past value assessment onto the current player, as if being a first rounder is any sort of indication as to what kind of pro player they are today. If there were a redraft, he’d be lucky to hear his name.

All in all, I’d cut him and try to put him on the practice squad. Keep Dobbs, who’s at least a very smart guy who can be useful with a clipboard and such.

 

You answered your own question

Most QBs fail. So why not try to develop the first round talent you got for virtually nothing vs spend a first round pick on another QB who by your own admission will probably fail.

I think your assessment of Haskins is wrong. but we all have opinions.

Well he ever become a super star in the NFL? The odds are against him.... but the talent is there... he can be coached and learn but he has the God given ability that you either have or you don't.

You are judging him off what? 13 starts games as a pro?

Mason 15 games as a pro vs Haskins 16

Mason 15 games 9 starts
201 of 326. 61.7% completion
15/10 td/int. 2089 yards
Y/a 6.4 y/g 139.3

Haskins 16 games 13 starts
267 of 444. 60.1 %
12/14 td/int 2804 yards
Y/a 6.3. Y/g 175.3


HACK

 

A failed first rounder is in fact not the same as an yet-to-be-drafted projected-first-rounder as it is 100% known the former is a failure while there is still the possibility the latter has the expected quality.

It’s also difficult to compare a backup to a starter. Haskins had the benefit of being the guy in Washington, getting first team treatment during workouts, camp, preseason, etc. Mason has always been the backup. His most analogous season was 2019, when he got the bulk of his starts, but even then he was thrust into the starting job due to injury and did ok considering his inexperience and the lack of first team reps and corresponding dearth of chemistry with his team having never thrown a regular season pass up to that point.

Lastly, Haskins basically became the Redskins third string QB last season behind Alex Smith and Taylor Heineke. He is simply not a good professional football player and it was and remains a waste of time for the Steelers to bring him in.

 

No Adam he didn't really earn anything his head coach has an itch that needed a good long scratching and so he remains.


Edit: oops sorry Adam confused you with the other NFL idiotsider. Ian you are shamed from here on out.

 

I’d take the keys

 

Drew Brees drafted by Chargers 2nd round 2001 by HC Mike Riley. Marty Schottenheimer hired in 2002 came in drafted Rivers in 2004. Let Brees walk.

Brett Favre drafted by Falcons 2nd round 1991...Glanville thought he was a bust traded to Green Bay 1992.

Kurt Warner UDFA 1994 signs with Packers. Gets cut after training camp. Played 3 years in Arena League... signed by Rams in 1998 and shipped off to the European league. 1999 Rams put him in the expansion draft where he was not chosen. Won NFL MVP, Super Bowl, and Super Bowl MVP that same year.

Tony Romo. Undrafted in 2003. 3rd string QB his first 2 years in the league. #2 his 3rd. Never took a snap until 2006. Now holds many Cowboy records over HOFers Aikman and Staubach

Alex Smith #1 overall pick by 49ers in 2005. Was called a bust early in career. Led team to title game in 2011. New coach Harbaugh trades him to KC and makes Kapernick starter. In KC he took them to playoffs 4 times and led the league in QBR in 2017... then traded to WFT in favor of Mahomes.

Ryan Fitzpatrick..7th round 2005... 16 years in the league. 9 different teams.. was not until his 7th team in year 12 did you hear Fitzmagic. Just named starter for WFT

These examples ran the gambit from Super Bowl HOF players to guys just carving out a long career... the point is none of them would have gotten a chance to grow according to your measuring stick.

And let's take a quick look at WFT in 2020.
Defense helps... in their 7 wins they never gave up more than 17 points and averaged 13 points given up a game. In their 10 losses they never gave up less than 20.. gave up 30 or more 6 times.. and gave up an average of 25.4 a game. Now obviously a QB can work against a defense... but it was true for all 3 guys that started that year

And finally.....#1 over all pick and 15 year veteran who started 167 games in his career... wins comeback player of year...out plays 13 game starter... should not be that surprising.... what is IMO is this

Comeback player of the year and WFT hero. vs Haskins by the #s

SMITH in 6 starts
168/252. 1582 yards 6TD 8INT

HASKINS in 6 starts
148/241. 1439 yards. 5TD 7INT

If this was a non covid year...I think he is probably still in Washington and they are hoping he grows into something... but the new coach who didn't draft him used him as an example and put his own stamp on the team.

But bottom line.... he is basically a free first round pick sitting on the depth chart behind a 1st ballot HOFer..... No risk HIGH reward.

HACK

 

You're citing extreme exceptions, for one.

For another, all of those guys had very high football IQs, where Haskins has shown he does not. Favre might be the exception there as he was more of a shoot-from-the-hip type of QB but he had other skills Haskins simply does not.

The secondary reason why Haskins was benched last year, behind his poor play, was his poor work ethic. That comes straight from the WFT staff. I don't think anyone ever questioned any of the mentioned players' dedication to the game.

Quite simply, again, there's nothing that indicates Haskins can hack it as a professional QB. None. Anyone thinking he's some latent star is simply hoping for a miracle.

 

You are simply wrong about those being the exceptions. I simply stayed in the QBs that I could think of off the top of my head..... you can name guys at every position on the field that didn't start out great.

James Harrison was cut how many times?. People were calling Troy Polamalu a bust....Ben was QB3 based on preseason and only moved up because of injury. Heck Terry Bradshaw couldn't spell Cat if you spotted him the C and the A was benched for Gilliam.

Randy Moss was called washed up.. then became a Patriot and had a whole new career....

Jake Delhomne was with the Saints in 1997 On their PS... was sent to Europe twice before getting the Saints #3 spot. In 2002 The Panthers were 1-15 ... in 2003 they signed Delhome to be the backup and he took them to the Super Bowl

Doug Williams was a first round pick for Tampa Bay.... looked good but couldn't agree to a new contract and went to the USFL. Was at home without a job after the USFL folded.... only one person called and it was Washington wanting him to be a back up.... he gets starting spot after an injury and takes them to a SB WIN

Steve Young went to the USFL.. then the Bucs... was a bust...2 years.. he went 3 and 16 as a starter 11 TDs and 21 INT... and was traded to the 49ers.
He was a bust.. now he has a bust in the HOF


Just because you don't know them all does not mean they are not littered through out the league.

By your own words those are exceptions... but you never get to get one of those exceptions unless you take the chance on them ...... those exceptions are like lottery tickets... most are losers. But you can't win if you don't play.

Hack

 

You've only named 11 players over about 35 years worth of football and hundreds of early round picks that never panned out. Even if you named 30 guys, it's still an extreme exception.

I'm not saying it's impossible to find those exceptions. I'm saying, there are tells that indicate when a player simply does not have what it takes to succeed in the NFL, and Haskins has shown he is not going to be an exception. He would have to completely retool his skillset, mature by about a decade, and increase his football IQ substantially. If he manages that, good on him but I haven't seen anything that suggests that will happen.

 

I don't know what you do for a living. But with your keen eye for the tells that it a players has what it takes you should apply for a GM spot.... at the very least take over for the Mel Kipers of the world and put out s yearly draft Bible.

You are right...I don't know every player that played the game over the history of the league. But the point is there is a lot of them. Let's say 1% are rejects who turn good... over the last 50 years that's about... what 80000 roster spots? ...1% is 800 guys that over came it all to be successful.... let's cut in half...400 guys carved out a career over 50 years...... maybe only 50 to 75 are HOF talent.. that still leaves 300 guys who I dont know.. that were considered a bust.. but ended up playing RT for 10 years in Arizona or Oakland... that's a success.

HACK

 

I like to do mock off-seasons (releases, re-signings, trades, restructures, drafts, etc.) for fun, and they've turned out pretty well. Not that it means much, but I do have a decent eye. Maybe I should've gone into sports administration in college

 

Lol. I do as well... and like you.. have a pretty good track record.... but I guess that's why you and I both just debate on the internet and neither of us get paid to do it. Lol Keep on scouting my friend.

HACK

 

The Steelers reclamation project of Dwayne Haskins has been a success so far. He has made the team's roster and will use this year as a redshirt season. Hopefully he will mature and learn how to be a professional and we will see how things go from there.