General discussion, RB's. QB's and the game moving forward

Just some general non-sense before camps starts. NFL radio talk has been slow but some conversation on different RB's, not getting or paid and QB salaries reaching points that diminish other positions.

Some discussion suggested RB's getting 3 year contracts out of the draft, thus giving them earlier bargaining power for likely the only big(ger) contract they will likely sign. a couple suggested the RB's form their own union (I heard Najee talk about this in the off season). Then of course there was talk of QB salaries being separate from the CAP. This has been talked about here in the past.

I don't think any of these things can or will come to fruition, at least not soon. First you have the current CBA still in place for a few more years, not sure how you could form a separate union within a union, when would it stop? G's or ILB feel they are underpaid so they form a separate bargaining unit? The 3 year contract actually has some merit, but would the rest of the union go for it? They want their chance for a bigger payday as well. The market decides what the rates will be, and bottom line is none of this will make a difference as long as the owners hold on to the % that's in the CBA. You can move QB's off the CAP, but unless the owners and union agree on a different formula, the ultimate amount paid to players is still based n that %. I think it's as 48.5, and I don't see the owners moving much away from that.
Just random boredom waiting for camp next week. lol

 

I don't think there will be much support for changing the rookie deal. The owners benefit by not overpaying younger guys and the veterans benefit from more money being available to them. Future rookies have no say in the next CBA. I could see some type of individual MAX cap like in basketball so that a few players don't get all the money.

RB's do seem to have the lost their relative value. It will be interesting to see what happens with Cook and Barkley.

 

It all goes in circles. RBs had their day . It may comeback around again. Almost every position has been highly touted, and then drop back at one time , or another.
Someday someone will realize about the Qbs ....just because You are up next doesn't mean You should be the next highest paid. It happened to RBs at one time.

 

WR as well. There will always be top guys, but the glut of NFL ready guys will make those seeking 2nd and 3rd contracts more affordable.

 

Just looking at the RB position, guys come out of college with all the hype in the world. The NFL is no joke though and they quickly become just another RB. Just picking out a few RBs that came into the league with Superman on their chests; Henry, Barkley, Fournette, Chubb. These guys are still very good RBs, just not nearly what they were hyped to be. Add in they will take the most punishment over their first 4/5 seasons, it's no wonder how few ever make a 2nd contract, at least with the team that drafted them. I think this is also part of the reason why the league has become so pass heavy. Rules against hitting QBs and 'defenseless' receivers make passing not just easier for the offense, but generally more efficient both on the field and financially. Also why QBs the size of Kyler Murray are less of a risk now.

 

The way I see it all these guys are upset that the Kickers are averaging more than the RB average, but are totally missing how Kickers are the highest scorers for many teams. Also the fact that there really are only 32 of them on an active roster for the most part. Averaging 32 with some of the top ones like Tucker getting what they do is going to come out ahead of RBs.

Last year there were 70+ RBs listed as starting RBs. The top guys are just missing out on what Kickers average, so of course with all the guys on rosters, the average is going to be garbage.

You tell me you wouldn't take a kicker that was routinely kicking 55+ yards FGs to keep a team in games and win them over a RB that would at max get you 7-9 TD's in todays passing game league.

 

Someone pointed out that those averages are based on cap hit so some RB have $0 average since they are not counted against cap. An example of picking data to support an argument.

Meanwhile top back (McCaffrey) is at $16m, top kicker (Tucker) is $6m. James Conner will make more than Tucker.

 

Good point, but the tag for RB's has gone down quite a bit while the annual CAP has increased. I see different ideas being thrown out there, but the market is going to set the price regardless. For instance if they reset the terms of RB contracts so they can be FA in 3 years, giving them a chance to cash in earlier, then other positions of 'less value', or even 'speciality' players will demand that as well. It sucks for them, but that is free market. A top RB may get 250 plus touches a year, a WR half or less that many targets, right now WR, even number 2's are getting paid more than most starting RB's.

 

Makes me think of the TE position. I think Kelce talked about the WR salaries compared with TE. Here is my comparison:

Top 32 Average Salaries
WR $17M
TE $8.4M
RB $6.0M

Top 10 Average Salaries
WR $24.5M
TE $13.8M
RB $11.1M
​

Once difference is the RB average age for the top 32 is 2 years younger (26.5), supporting that many don't get the lucrative 2nd contract. The top contracts include more on rookie deals.

 

It's going to be interesting to watch. Just like WR where you have a certain few that reach that elevation, the same can be said for TE (and most positions for that matter), if Muth stays healthy he definitely will be trending up, now a lot will depend how the Steelers use the position as well, but in the latter half of last season he was ridicules in some of those drives, especially catch's across the middle.

 

thats the game

 

Should there be a CAP number on the Carries a running back is allowed per game/year.

Tomlin is known for running his RBs into the ground; should coaches like Tomlin be punished for destroying a players career by running him into the ground.

In 2017 Bell had 321 carries and in 3 of those games he had more than 32 carries. There are workplace laws out there if your boss is creating a hazardous work condition. Is making a RB attempt 35 carries in a single game hazardous to his career? Le'Veon Bell had 2 games in 2017 where he carried the ball 35 times.

If a pitcher threw 200 pitches in a game would anyone cry foul?

 

What about having RB contracts good for so many years or carries; whichever one comes first? Or a rookie multiplier based on the number of carries per year. More than 200 caries in a year the salary is Double, more than 250 carries it is triple, and if it is some crazy number like more than 300 carries in a year it would be 4 times the Salary.

I am not talking Bonus money, just the yearly salary of the contract. This would be used for the Rookie Contracts that the players are forced to sign after the draft. Because a player can't negotiate his rookie deal and the NFL/NFLPA basically tells all rookies what they will be playing for the next 4 years of their life.

 

I'm all for incentives. RBs get paid for what they produce, fines for things that hurt the team. Bonuses for all-purpose yards, fines for fumbles. TDs = cash, running out of bounds intentionally short of the sticks = fines.

 

Interesting no RB’s on top 25 performance based distribution. $336 million distributed. Two Steelers in top ten.

 

Not sure if you understood my post was hypothetical in response to a previous post, which was also hypothetical. If that was understood then I don't understand your response. Do you think more RBs would be on that list with a more incentive based contract?

 

I was wondering if the current performance pay helps the RB plight at all. I was expecting to see Kenneth Walker and Rhamondre Stevenson - top 15 in rushing and making around $1M. I agree a stats based approach for RB would seem more fair. But I am skeptical it would be adopted for rookie contracts. If there is a way to apply more uniformly across all positions it would be more likely to be adoted in CBA. Which means it likely needs to be basic -Pro bowl appearance, starts, % of snaps. The vets are getting incentives for performance including yds, TD, etc though:
https://www.the33rdteam.com/categor...contract-incentives-heading-into-2023-season/

 

The premise of all of this is pretty much moot until the next CBA comes around anyway, and most of these guys will be out of the league, Like his stand or not Le Bell tried to voice it years ago when he sat out, it cost him (his choice), but the tag anount for RB has actually went down quite a bit, while other positions have went up. It's the market and as the league has changed it's unlikely to get any better for these guys, at least as a collective. When teams can find multiple replacements for their top backs in the lower rounds of the draft and the CAP dollars are squeezed out at other positions then business decisions are made. It really does not matter if they produce a different cap system for QB's etc., the CAP % amount is still going to remain the same unless the owners give up more money and they have been unwilling to budge.

Individuals in certain positions will still command more depending on what they bring to the team/system, but with that market is also a supply, as long as the supple chain produces enough to fill the void, business will always go with the least expensive model.

 

Kevin Dotson picked up a pretty good chunk of change! Good for him

 

In a capped league if RBs get more, some other position must get less. Will any of the RBs Union brothers care to volunteer to kick in $, to lessen their unfair plight? Don’t hold your breath.

 

So all that noise and Barkley signs for an extra $1M. Shows how little leverage these guys have. Maybe Daniel Jones will throw some of his money this year - $45M ($82M guaranteed) to help Barkley out.

 

They really muffed on this. I'm not saying you give Barkley insane money, but they could have last year picked up a 5th year option on Jones for around 23 million, if you want to extend then do it, or tag him. If you let him go, Barkley still has enough in the tank to help get another QB established.

 

Personally I think they were going to let Jones walk until after last season when he showed improvement with the new regime. The guarantees in the contract were over what he would have gotten for getting tagged for 2 years ($10M+), so that was a win for Jones. Conversely, the Giants get less of a cap hit this year ($21M) and flexibility in year 3 and 4 if he doesn't pan out.


https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/daniel-jones-29041/