Carnell Lake needs to go

for every 1 keenan lewis we have had 10 antwon blakes. as i said the trouble started when we lost lewis.

 

How many GMs have been fired over the last 5 years, Blast? Okay, now how many coaches have been fired over the last 5 years? Many, many more coaches lose their jobs every single year because they fail to coach players up! That may not be the right approach and maybe more GMs should be held accountable. But the fact is that coaches are expected to get the most our of their players. The great coaches have the ability to make mediocre talent good and good talent great. Lake simply HAS NOT DONE THAT so I guess I'm disappointed that he's not a difference maker as a coach like he was as a player.

 

why does MT have to step in last year as a part time db coach in camp trying to teach them the tampa 2? this to me says all i need to know about the experience part. this isn't lakes fault. he never should have been thrown into a pro setting after 2 years of coaching.

 

Stop acting like he's the greatest assistant coach in the history of the league. His unit sucks! Our pass defense sucks! Our secondary can't tackle, can't cover and have the worst ball skills I've ever seen. It's shown in the results since Lake has been here. I'd trade the Browns secondary straight up for them TODAY!

 

Especially with what they give Lake to work with, we should see what he can do with Golson next year, if he can stay off IR:

2nd Round selection: CB, Senquez Golson, Ole Miss

Golson, although a smaller cornerback by NFL standards, is the epitome of the word 'ballhawk'. Golson had 10 interceptions in 2014 within the SEC football conference at Ole Miss. Golson isn't afraid of getting involved in run support and has been lauded as having better hands than most wide receivers in this draft class. Golson will certainly look to play in nickel and dime situations, but depending on the play of Cortez Allen could see time on the outside as well.

 

And keep wearing those rose colored glasses.

 

I think he is to small and will have to play inside . I do agree he has great ball skills ,but he can't compete with #1 or #2 WR'S in the NFL. That is the problem with our D we have 10 nickle guys and no outside guys..

 

But I just can't buy the argument that the Steelers have just missed in their evaluation process on these players over the last few years. They obviously saw something in these players that made them draft/sign them. Lake hasn't been able to get the potential out of them that I would have hoped. Cortez Allen and Shamarko Thomas are two good examples of that.

 

What results are you referring to? The ones that count as in points allowed per game or the ones that don't such as passing yards allowed per game?

 

You make a good point, but we're near the bottom of the league in overall pass defense and have been for the last few seasons. We had a running joke on this board about how every quarterback we played this season seemed to have their personal best passing day against us. I watched every game this year and our DBs don't seem to have very good ball skills and their tackling is putrid at times. I'm glad our defense tightened up in the red zone, but I'm not a huge fan of bend don't break. How about don't bend, don't break? If you're letting the opposing QB complete passes at will and convert, what seems like, every third down they attempt we've got issues that need to be dealt with. It's not all on Lake but we seem to have some fundamental breakdowns at times and that does fall on the position coach.

 

Once again points is all that matters. I couldn't care less about the running joke on this board about a qb's having career days. I care about wins and losses. Y'all whine about the Manziels and Malletts yet ignore the play of our $100,000,000 franchise quarterback. Yes, our young almost rebuilt defense missed a bunch of tackles this year, but they also were top ten(?) in the league in points allowed. All the rest is just smoke and mirrors.

 

How so?? Agree that in the end, points is all that matters, but we have A LOT OF WORK to do rebuilding our secondary. It's deteriorated to the point that if it were a building, it would be condemned. Whether it's from mis-evaluating talent or failure to coach up to the next level, we SUCK in the secondary no matter how you spin it!

 

But it seems we've had an inordinate number of DBs in particular that have fizzled and busted the last several seasons. It sounds as if you're saying that in order for Lake to have success, we've got to deliver him blue chip first and second round DBs but I think a great coach takes average talent and makes it above average. Are you happy with the job that Lake has done, Blast? Do you ever find fault in coaching? I guess I'm just disappointed because I had really high hopes for Lake when he joined the staff and thought he might be able to significantly improve our secondary. So far I haven't seen improvement and if anything many of the young players we were counting on (Cortez, Shamarko) have continued to regress under his leadership. I guess the lesson learned for me is that just because you're a special player, and Lake was indeed that, doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be able to translate that into the coaching world.

 

You are correct, you finally took off the rose colored glasses when it comes to your boy, Tomlin, and saw some of the chinks in his armor. Maybe you'll get there with Lake eventually.

Lake has improved players? Maybe, but I think the number of players that have regressed under his leadership outnumber the "improved" players two to one. I mentioned Shamarko and Cortez and I even think Mitchell has regressed. He's not the kind of impact player he was in Carolina or Oakland.

Of course they need talent, but I look at a guy like Munchak who's taken marginal talent along the OL and gotten the most out of them. Lake has taken marginal talent and, well, hasn't gotten much of anything out of them.

HAVE FUN BEATING YOUR HORSE!

 

I believe our secondary issues stem from a couple things.

Drafting is a huge problem.
And I think the biggest thing is our defensive philosophy.

As far as Lake goes, you know he hasn't been givin much to work with. Good coaches get the most out of their players and help them reach their full potential. The players have the biggest part in that. If some of these players would have went on and done well elsewhere then maybe there is something to your argument.

 

I'm getting a headache reading all this..... Let's just simplefy it. Our secondary stinks, and I think it's a combination of all. Lack of talent, (drafting) not getting the most out of our players, and bad philosophy.(coaching) like playing so deep and then can't tackle, missed assignments, etc.

The whole thing needs fixed, better talent, and better coaching of individuals and coaching philosophy. One could say that the reason we don't play like the Denver secondary is because we don't have the talent to play tight coverage. That's possible and that's why it all needs fixed.

Agree with Jack that the window will close in 2 to 3 years. We need to fix it now and that's even what Rooney was saying.

 

Everything you have said, EVERYTHING has been refuted by me and others and you choose to ignore it so you can go on beating your drum.
EVERYTHING I've said has been refuted huh? Okay, so the Steelers secondary is awesome. Shamarko has developed into a starting caliber safety. Cortez Allen is the second coming of Mel Blount. Neither of the previous two guys I've mentioned has regressed (or at least they haven't progressed) under Lake's tutelage. Mike Mitchell is a better safety now than he was with the Panthers and with the Raiders and has not regressed. Our secondary tackles well, has tremendous ball skills and covers receivers like white on rice! Yep, EVERYTHING I've said has been refuted.

•Your shining example for "the great coach can take average talent and make it above average", couldn't do it but you ignore that.
I guess you're referring to Belichick here and I believe there are countless examples over the years where he has taken average talent and made it above average or at least gotten above average performance out of them as a team/unit. Shoot, there's an example of that on our own team in Munchak but you somehow explain that away so it fits your own argument.
•Gay, Cockrel, McCain, Golden (and I am sure there are others) all improved under Lake but you ignore that.
Shamarko, Cortez, Mitchell hasn't and he hasn't developed a single mid round draft pick but you ignore that.
•Lake is just a position coach and doesn't make the draft picks but you ignore that.
I'm sure Lake has a hand in the evaluation process and offers his opinion on a player prior to the draft, in fact he's said as much in his post draft interviews. Wouldn't that make sense?
•The problems with the secondary go back way before Lake got here but you ignore that.
Yep, and that's why Lake was brought in, to help improve our secondary AND HE HAS FAILED TO DO SO!!
•No player that failed under Lake went on to do anything anywhere else but you ignore that.
Meh, they're damaged goods at that point. Who wants to sign a mid round draft pick who couldn't cut it on another team? Lake had his opportunity to coach them up and didn't do it.

 

You know I've got to be the counterpoint to your point.

Look, I'm not saying it's all on Lake. I realize there is a lot to be desired when it comes to our evaluation and drafting process. I do believe that Lake has more of a role in that than you seem to think. Lake may be an okay coach, but since he was more than an okay player I kinda expected him to be able to transfer some of that to his coaching career. He may be okay, but he's nothing special. If we'd seen more development out of some of the average talent he's been provided then I may have a different viewpoint.

Tell you what, I'll give him some credit for coaching up Gay, McCain and Cockrell (somewhat) if you'll place some blame on him for failing to coach up Shamarko, Cortez and the mid-round busts of Richardson, Hawthorne, Brown, etc.

Bottom line, we have problems in our secondary. He is the secondary coach. He plays a role in that, how significant is the debate. I obviously believe he plays a more significant role in that than you do. What a surprise! We disagree!!