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Can't wait for someone to discover the PFF post on Tomlin

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Rollers, Jun 9, 2021.

  1. Rollers

    Rollers Well-Known Member

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    Come on guys!!
     
  2. SDOT

    SDOT Well-Known Member

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    What? Not considered a Top 7 coach this year? Tell us something we don't know. They're saying he's the most overrated coach of all time.
     
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  3. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    Their list of top coaches is garbage, Harbaugh #2 in the entire league, LOL

    Lafleur #3 based on what? No Kyle Shanahan in the top 7?

    It’s a bizarre list written by that attention crazed muppet Eric Eager, they’ll get lots of clicks and shares from outraged fans however.
     
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  4. Vox Ferrum

    Vox Ferrum Well-Known Member

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    That is what PFF (especially on this type of list) and sites like Fan Sided do. Just opinions from writers I have never heard of, making up lists to generate clicks that create more revenue.
     
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  5. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    PFF is a useful guide to general performance and there is definitely merit in what they do in terms of analysis.

    I do think some of their analysts are overdoing it in going against popular opinion in an effort to convince everyone how smart they are. Eager (who wrote that article) in particular loves a headline. You’d have to wonder why these guys haven’t been snapped up by NFL teams if they really have the game figured out to the extent they want us all to believe they have.
     
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  6. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Idiotic article. PFF’s wheelhouse is brute force analysis, watching every player on every play and grading how consistently they execute their assignments on every play. While I don’t take their ratings as gospel, I think that they tend to be good directionally. When they overthink things, they get ridiculous. This article is ridiculous. How well have Harbaugh and LeFleur coached the last couple of postseasons? Yet they’re 2 and 3? The best coach of the past couple of decades is #6 because he had a roster building year? Please…. I’ll say it again. Idiotic article.
     
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  7. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    PFF = Pretty F***ing Fake.
    :dancing:
     
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  8. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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  9. Maddog78

    Maddog78 Well-Known Member

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    I've never followed/paid attention to their coach rankings, only player rankings. Their philosophy that they shared in the DC rankings seemed the opposite of their player rankings, i.e. completely numerical and objective.

    I like the player rankings because they're subjective, and context matters.
     
  10. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    Yeah they are fine as a general guide to performance like I said, as long as people understand that there is a sizeable margin for error because they can’t definitively know player assignments on individual plays.

    Also, by all accounts the guys watching the plays are not coaches or football experts by any stretch of the imagination. I believe they are generally fans that work part time and they log plays going by the PFF system after getting training. There has to be anomalies arising from that fact alone.
     
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  11. Steel Hog

    Steel Hog Well-Known Member

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    Or realize they are for entertainment only and not to put money down based on anything they say or print. The way I put value on something like them is if they were to disappear would the world still go on without notice.
     
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  12. Maddog78

    Maddog78 Well-Known Member

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    32 NFL teams would notice, since they pay for their analysis.
     
  13. Steel Hog

    Steel Hog Well-Known Member

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    Well, they're getting jipped. Maybe they should all join TSF's and get some real analysis.
     
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  14. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Say what now?
     
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  15. Maddog78

    Maddog78 Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021
  16. Confluence

    Confluence Well-Known Member

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    according to PFF Marsh is our starting OLB opposite Watt and Hassenauer is our starting center
     
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  17. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Since 2019 so yeah, been mostly a fan blog.

    I hope you aren’t naive enough to think they are using them for player analysis or that teams are heavily dependent on their service. The guy that runs this website used to work for them.
     
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  18. Maddog78

    Maddog78 Well-Known Member

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    What since 2019? I don't know what exactly teams use them for, the testimonials seem to call out various things.

    What does the guy who started this site after getting fired by PFF say they do?
     
  19. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    I can see how the data would be useful for scouting departments as PFF log just about everything, team tendencies, scheme etc.

    I very much doubt that teams use it for player evaluation, which is what the whole consumer end of their business is built on
     
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  20. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    He wasn’t fired. The point was you seem to think there are ex coaches, players and scouts working there. It’s regular joes crunching numbers.

    2019 is when the PFF hitched its wagon to the NFL and all 32 teams, before that, just a few teams was associated with them. Not that it means anything, they probably have accounts with Outside the Numbers and every other data driven site. I wouldn’t be surprised if PFF pays the NFL to be associated with them.
     
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  21. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    I doubt they use them very much at all for anything, teams employ whole scouting departments for this kind of stuff.
     
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  22. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    I know teams have pro scouting departments, I actually mentioned them in the post you quoted. My point was that the level of data that PFF offer could be useful to these departments if it’s used correctly, but how much it could actually move the needle, I’ve no idea.

    PFF’s draft coverage in particular is a complete joke. They absolutely kill teams for picking player XYZ and seem to take the position that QB, CB & WR are the only positions worth drafting in the first round despite the huge bust rates at those positions. I would imagine that this view would change very very quickly if they were running a front office and there were actual real life repercussions for their draft choices.
     
  23. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    I don't know this for a fact, but I believe I read the Browns use Analytical data the most of any team out of the last 6, or so years.
    That's got them what? 1 playoff win ?
    Yes I know against us.
    We play that game 10 times we win 8. IMO.
    I seen how we whooped them earlier, and almost beat them with a bunch of backups later, while they were playing for a spot in the playoffs.
    I went back and looked.
    3 Top team in the NFL use of Analytics
    1.Ravens
    2. Browns
    3. Texans.
    LoL
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021
  24. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    You are correct, Browns have very much adopted the analytical approach since DePodesta took up his role there, and PFF are continually gushing about how smart they are as an organisation, along with the Ravens. It hasn’t yielded much to date but the roster was a total mess when DePodesta arrived in 2017 (or whenever it was). I honestly do think the Browns are coming in to a two year window now. Their roster has no obvious weaknesses at this stage apart from Baker and they hide his deficiencies very well in that run heavy offence. We’ll see how it plays out for them this year.
     
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  25. Maddog78

    Maddog78 Well-Known Member

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    I never thought there were former coaches, players, and scouts working there (though Cris Collinsworth bought a controlling interest in 2014). They're very transparent about how they grade, and it makes perfect sense to grade subjectively and not just grade the result of the play. Everyone can see when the WR drops a perfect pass and knows not to ding the QB for it, or when a WR takes a bubble screen 60 yards that the QB didn't have as much to do with it as the WR. Some positions are harder to grade than others, and they admit that.

    I probably overdefend them because of the backlash they take from fans who think they "hate" their team and are biased against them. Those are probably the same fans who think every talking head and announcer "hates" their team, too, if they don't share the same blind, effusive enthusiasm about their team as they do. Why would the Steelers ask for their data if they "hated" them?

    From their wikipedia page, they started working with a few teams as early as 2011, as of 2019 all of them. I think you probably have the wrong end of the stick about them paying the NFL, though.
     

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