Losing to inferior teams?

I think the problem is less losing to bad teams, and more the way we seem to lose - which is mainly through making silly, mental mistakes, and the perception of a lack of effort.

I don't doubt the stats the OP posted, but the perception has arisen out of a particular mentality that the team appears to have in those situations.

I do also think that the perception of 'weak' teams overlooks the state of the NFL. Upsets happen all the time. But there's a difference between an upset where both teams are playing out of their skin, and an upset where one team doesn't play for the first half and then fails to catch up in the second.

 

How does the team every win any games if they are a low IQ team?

I guess you didn't realize or forgot the times when the clock management was good?

Sometimes it's never as bad as it seems. People tend to enhance some of the negatives that float around. Sometimes ideas catch wild fire because people just accept without choosing to search for facts. One idea that was floated around before was the Steelers were an undisciplined team. Well that idea was squashed because it was shown that the Steelers were one of the least penalized teams in the league.

 

He didn't say they were a low IQ team he said they have as a group a low football IQ. So in other words when they know they need a first down having the smarts to get beyond the yard sticks, having the smarts to know a three yard pass gets you four more downs instead of a 30 yard splash play that ends the drive. Knowing that instead of touching a punt to down it and then leaving the ball there, pick it up and protect it. Here is one you should know about "turnovers" being smart enough to know that the team that wins the turnover battle wins the game so don't force throws that aren't there. Don't fight for extra yards against a team that strips the ball without securing it, use two hands when possible when making the catch and don't go for the circus catch if possible. Low football IQ has more to do with knowing where you are at in the game as opposed to being smart or dumb. Also being less penalized doesn't equate to being disciplined. There are fines doled out every week for undisciplined play that were never flagged in a game does this mean those players that were fined were well disciplined players because they were not penalized during the game? The refs aren't going to flag every instance of undisciplined play during the course of a game there just isn't enough eyes on the field for that. Not to mention the stuff that is just plain stupid and undisciplined like excessive celebrating in the endzone when you know its a 15 yard penalty.

 

Less penalties definitely equates to more discipline. We have a pretty good sample size of teams, plays, penalties, and missed penalties/fines.

Penalties is a fair and objective measure of team discipline. You don't need a non-penalized fines argument just because the steelers team penalties doesn't align with your opinion.

 

well
it's well known that Ben has always tried to find a way not to play the Ravens in Bmore . He's come up with numerous reasons to not play, even teammates have called him out on this previously.
Well,
He really pulled out the trickery this last time. He actually was on the field yet didn't play.

You can see it in his eyes that he is scared against them. It is obvious he did not gameplan against the Ravens. It appeared he thought Suggs and Ray Ray were playing in this game. Now that right there is proof of low football IQ by our team. Situational football.

 

Since you are big into breaking plays down and looking for individual reasons for this and that let me throw out some examples and you tell me if it is undisciplined or not.

1.) Visiting team in a very loud stadium. 1st quarter 3 and 1 at opposing teams 40 yard line. OT is concentrating on his QB's snap count. The opposing OLB flinches causing the OT to rock backwards drawing a false start penalty and moves them from 3 and 1 to 3 and 11 and potentially out of field goal range. Penalized play but is it undisciplined?

2.) Corner back on first down cheats up towards the line, he tries to guess the snap count based on the QB'S cadence. The QB changes his cadance causing the CB to start his blitz, flagged for offsides unabated to the QB. Is that penalty disciplined or not?

3) OT engages DE and during the course of the play, the DE slips on the icy field going down, the OT is flagged for holding. Is this undisciplined?

4. )MLB follows the slot recipe on a crossing route well within the 5 yard chuck zone. He places his hand on the receivers hip bit doesn't turn him with it. He blocks the completion but is flagged for pass interference. Undisciplined?

Penalties are not the end all and be all when determining disciplined play vs undisciplined play

 

So Tomlin has lost to 23 teams with losing records since he has been here, and in 09 they lost to the 1-11 browns in cleveland, beware of this game in cleveland sunday, because this team can under perform anytime they play a team with a big losing record....

 

32 losses within one score

 

For me, I'm not as bothered by losing to a team with a poor record. Especially if that loss is to a division opponent—these games area pick em in many cases, regardless of record. You can stomach the Raven's loss if it's a bad Raven's team quarterbacked by Flaco. But losing to a bad team with a QB who's been on the team for 12 days...is pretty pathetic. He knows maybe 20% (this is generous) of the playbook. I'd like to see a stat on teams with their starting QB losing to teams on their fourth QB of the season.

 

Low football IQ—Shamarko Thomas anyone? Has to be one of the dumbest Steeler players I've witnessed.

 

This is interesting. The Cowher/Tomlin comparison. the win/loss % at this point and win/loss to sub-par teams is pretty even. Let's also remember Cowher did this and his best quarter back for all but two seasons was Neil O'donnel??? Tomlin has had a future HOF'er for all 9. Just sayin....

 

Vince Williams must have a pretty high iq because supposedly he was calling the signals that even Timmons couldn't get the hang of. Seems like I heard that on Cooler Talk or something???

 

My main criticism of Cowher was always that I felt like we didn't win a lot of games that we should have. His last year we went 8-8 and lost some really ridiculous games to some really ridiculous teams.

 

So you are saying that we manage the clock well when we have shown in the Denver game that we have no comprehension of situational football by throwing, stopping the clock, AND slinging an INT when all we have to do is take time off the clock? You think it shows good management when we take TWO timeouts early in the second half because we can't get a play in? You think it shows a high iq when we bring in Landry Jones, against one of the best defenses in the NFL, in a quarter change, to run a fake fg to a 3rd string linemen, when we are in full command of the game and then turn it over and cause a huge point swing? You think it shows situational awareness when time and time again we are playing 5 or 6 yards off the receiver on a 3rd and 2 or 4th and 2? You think that the "cushion" is a myth? You think that we get to the qb with the frequency we used to? You think it's good situational football when Ben and Martavis try to run the fake spike and literally Martavis instead runs a comeback route as opposed to a go? You think it shows good awareness when we are throwing it deep on consecutive plays when all we need to do is get in fg range to tie the game? That's great that the penalties have fallen IN THIS SEASON but if you think that compensates for all the other stuff that I just mentioned off the top of my head then we just have a fundamental disagreement.

 

Isn't that basically saying the same thing but worded differently? How do they win any games under the "low IQ" circumstances?

Sometimes players and coaches make good decisions and sometimes they don't. Kind of what happens to every team across the league. No one makes the right decisions all the time. So stop acting like the right decisions are made all the time.

I am sure all coaches and players know they have to take care of the football. I am sure it's preached league wide. Listen to what coaches and players say in regard to turnovers. Look at how turnovers generally impact a W vs an L. Sometimes players make mistakes.

Oh brother, penalties can equate to being undisciplined. So stop acting they can't.

Some of you appear to be looking for perfection. Good luck with that.

 

Nope I am looking for you to get off the fence and pick a side for once. I will give you an example of the difference between having a low IQ versus a low football IQ. Now stay with me because this will be a generality and not an attack on you personally. Now you could be a Noble laureate with accolades galore touting how smart you are(Sheldon Cooper) but being this smart does not automatically mean that you are smart in all things such as knowing that crossing against a light like a dumbass can get you hit by a car. The crossing against the light is Football IQ, you know that doing so can result in bad results but sometimes you do it anyway. Even at the pro level it doesn't matter if you know that secure the ball is the best policy sometimes you get caught up in dumbass moments where you hold it out like a trophy and it gets stripped. Doesn't matter if you went to junior college or and IVY league school sometimes you just do stupid low football IQ plays.

Penalties can equate to discipline teams but penalties happen over the course of a game even when a team is very disciplined. Please see the examples I provided later in the post. However they can also have nothing to do with players being stupid and doing stupid things. Ramming into a guy because you think he hit your guy late is a penalty and undisciplined. Getting in that guys face and letting him know he can't push you around but having it go no further can get flagged fora penalty and not be undisciplined.

 

I explain them getting torched by better QB/WR combos . Very rarely do Teams with good DB'S give up as many yards as the Steelers nor do they give up as many 3rd. down conversions esp. 3rd. and long.. The Steelers rank 30th. in yards allowed .The Steelers are also ranked #22 in allowing 3rd. down conversions.Of those they are ranked #30 in the longest distance allowed on 3rd. down..

What does those stats tell us ? They tell us the Team does play better in the Redzone being they keep the point total down. It tells us they give up tons of yardage between the 20's. This is a clear sign that you don't have good DB play and when the field shrinks it helps the poor players play tighter which helps your pressure get home....

Here is the list of the top Teams in yards passing allowed and in 3rd. down conversion allowance.....Denver,Seattle,Houston,Carolina,Arizona,Jets,Patriots ...

All of these Teams have at least 1 bigger,faster, and stronger DB than the Steelers. Most of them have 2,3, or 4 players back there that are clearly a lot better than the Steelers have . What does this tell us ? That Teams with talent on the back end can and do shut down Teams between the 20's and Teams with good DB'S can get off the field on 3rd. down...

All of those Teams are already locked into the post season except the Jets . Teams that keep the pass yardage down and get off the field win more games and the Steelers don't have the talent to do it therefore any QB can move up and down the field on them which limits chances for our O and keeps lower level Teams in the game more often than not the results getting beat by 4th. string QB'S making BU'S look like all Pros...Til they get some talent on the back end it will only get worse not better ...

 

I chalk that year up to a Superbowl hangover for a lot of different reasons...

 

I don't think low football IQ has anything to do with it. Sometimes ish happens. Players and coaches make mistakes.

People like to make up these issues like, "losing to inferior teams." It seems all coaches lose to what people would consider "inferior teams". I don't view professional teams as inferior. Any coach that views another team as inferior has already loss. All teams in the NFL have the talent to beat any team in the league. Different variables can come together to allow a team with a worse record to defeat a team with a better record. Turnovers are generally the key factor that allow that to happen.

People can continue to believe that Tomlin is a bad or inadequate coach. I think this coaching staff did a fine job handling the adversity they faced this year. I guess fans in general don't appreciate good coaches when they have them.

 

Nice analysis. Now where do we get some talent?

 

I think a lot of people will be surprised how common it is for a team to lose to an 'inferior opponent'.

I've been off since Christmas, so I killed some time on profootball-reference.com. The Steelers were something like 10pt favorites over Balt. I looked up all the games since 2005 where a team was a 9.5 pt, 10 pt or 10.5 pt favorite. This is total of 198 games.

Guess how often the underdog won outright (not just covered)? I'm sure many of you think this happens 5 or 10% of the time. The actual number is 20%. 38 out of 198.

Essentially every week or so on average there's a 10pt favorite playing in the NFL, and 3 or 4 times each season, the favorite loses. It happens roughly every month.

This is kind of the mathematical verification of 'on any given Sunday'. Any team can beat any other team in the NFL, and it's not extremely rare, it happens all the time.

Not that this will necessarily make people feel any better about Sunday's loss in Balt. But you often here fans say things like 'There's no way the Steelers are gunna lose to those bums this week', and that expectation is often misplaced.

 

Sometimes stats can "lie" The Texans are first in 3rd down %. They are an 8-7 team right now. The Bears and Cowboys are 4th and 5th in passing yards per game and both teams have losing records.

The stats that probably matters most for a defense are ppg and turnovers created. Can't count on defenses to create or have turnovers every game. You can't even count on defenses to stop teams from scoring consistently in a league where the rules favor offenses.

I agree that the Steelers need to get better players in the secondary. I doubt the Steelers break the bank to sign a FA CB. The Steelers typically don't break the bank on any FA's they sign. The Steelers were rarely in a position to draft a young great CB.

 

You can continue to view teams as inferior. I don't share that view. Simply because I've watched the game long enough to know better. My position is that there teams with better records vs teams with worse records. Every team has different strengths and weaknesses. One problem with Steelers fans is their view that the Steelers are a superior team in regard to the other teams around the league. Is that a sense of entitlement?

I guess you learned a lesson that injuries shouldn't be an excuse?? The Steelers found ways to overcome their injuries to have a winning and competitive season. How about those Ravens? The Ravens were a competitive team that couldn't find ways to win many of the close games they loss.

Turnovers were the main reason the Steelers loss vs the Ravens. Teams can overcome drops, missed FGs, poor coaching decisions, ect a lot better then they can losing the battle for turnovers. I don't know what it is about turnovers that turn the tide of games so much. It's just the way the football gods made it. When it comes to keys to winning a game taking care of the football should always be number one on any list.