keisel

The Steelers shouldn't pay Kiesel more than the vet minimum he's too old and isn't a starter anymore. That writer of the article is just speculating I haven't read anywhere that the Steelers were interested in bringing back Kiesel.

 

Rule6... You better hope they are interested in bringing Kiesel back..
Even if you believe one of the kids left on the roster, are better than him.. roflmao:HaHaHa!)...
What happens when that kid gets hurt?
We pretty thin at DE...
Keisel can still man his position, and teach the kids how to play it, when he ain`t on the field.
...
Just like Silverback.
Is it a case of sign one, or the other?
I hope not... I think both could be signed, after the draft, and after camp injuries take their toll on every team..
I`d rather sign them both, before other teams wind up with a need for either of them,
But until other teams start having injuries in training camp, they are not gonna go after either of them.
(Their loss...)..
Could become our gain.
Both of these players still have plenty left in their tanks, and are familiar with our system.
My position is clear... They could both help us immensely, and cost us next to nothing!
On a side note, I agree with JackAttack, that, if it weren`t for the Damn, AGENTS, both of these players would be happy to keep playing for the Black n Gold!
Do I KNOW that?
No.
Does it seem reasonable?
YES!
GO STEELERS!!!
bring BACK tha BEARD, and Silverback!!!

 

Keisel has always been part of my plan for the off-season to re-sign. And I would gladly sign him to more than vet minimum. In fact, I'd let him sit home for all of OTA's and into August and still sign him for about 1.5 to 2 million/season.

He'd start for this team right now on paper and it's not even close. Our D-line depth is horrific.

I think it's a done deal honestly and a deal won't get done until after OTA's. Keisel deserves a nice long off-season.

 

Signed.

Juan Epsteins Mother.

 

Pretty sure I read somewhere that they view Thomas as a DE. Not to say that things don't change, and I know there's been a lot of speculation on here about McLendon moving to DE, but that's what Colbert said.

 

Here are the snap counts of last years D-line group:

Heyward - 77% (rising)
Hood - 59% (steady)
Keisel - 53% (missed 5 games)
McLendon - 33% (missed about 3 games)
Woods - 20% (much as an injury replacement)

I don't see how we have out snap counts covered for 2014 yet.

McLendon is not a DE and I struggle to understand why people think he is. He is our starting NT and as such he will get around 40%-50% snap counts when healthy. That's what he was getting through the first 9 weeks last year (48%) but then took a disturbing nose dive after that (14% over the last 7 games) that wasn't entirely due to injury.

If we expect McLendon to play more than 45% this year, you are asking for trouble. He is a nice Chris Hoke type player but that's about as much as you can milk out of him.

Heyward is going to get 95%+ snap counts like Keisel used to get. That's a given.

So now we are talking about Cam Thomas and what he does. If he's like Al Woods (which he is, he's certainly not better than Al Woods) you want him to spell both McLendon sometimes and maybe one of your DE's and also act as an injury replacement. That's about 8-12 snaps a game if everyone is healthy or about 160-200 snaps per season, which is 20% just like Woods.

According to my calculations that means we are 900+ snaps short of what we need. Those are the snaps from Hood/Keisel.

I just don't see anyone on the roster getting those yet. Not even close. Even if you bump up McLendon to 50% participation (more than last year at his peak) and think Thomas can rotated and provide 25% that STILL leaves you 750 snaps to get out of whom?

It's a pretty big gap in my opinion that if we don't resign Keisel will be a pretty big thorn in our side.

I just hope we haven't made up our mind of someone like Hageman in the draft already and have blindly focused on him singularly to replace those snaps (like we sort of did with Jarvis Jones).

 

I totally agree about Keisel. I also agree about our DL depth and it must be addressed. If Hageman is there in the 2nd he's the pick. He's a boom/bust guy, it all depends on his heart. If he wants it and is motivated he'll be a beast but there are red flags about his on-field desire/effort.

Thomas is here to replace Woods' role as swing back-up. I can really see McLendon as a DE. He is our NT but he isn't that 2-gap stout run stuffer a true 3-4 needs. He is much more athletic and possess pass rush abilities which translates to a 5-tech.

We have to be careful using snap-count stats to diagnosis our defense. Without a playcalling runstuffing inside LBer and injurys to our DL AND ineffective/healthy OLBer play cause LeBeau to deploy more sub-packages, one most commonly referred to as Quarters Package with 3 CBs & 3 Safeties.

Fangupo is key to our DL, can he step in and be a stud NT? I don't think so but I don't have inside knowledge on why he didn't get the snaps last year.

Cajun-

 

So what I take from this barrage of numbers is we need help along the DL. The number I'm familiar with is we only played 35% of our snaps out of our base defense. Along with Tomlin's new mantra about sub-package football it's "obvious" to me that Aaron Donald should be the pick if he's available. After all he is one of the top 2 or 3 defensive players in the draft.


P.S. I don't really want to hear he's not a 'fit' in our scheme. He has the combine numbers,he's put it on tape and is said that he is a student of the game. I'm a little tired of drafting this guy and that guy and making him fit what we do. It hasn't worked out for us in a while....now I want football players.

 

They aren't going to draft a 6ft 285 lbs DT in Donald to play in a 3/4 defense. They still have Nick Williams on the roster he should get in the D-line rotation next season.

 

Yep, my impression of Williams thus far is that he REALLY looks the part, has the body of a Greek god but is as soft as the Pillsbury Dough Boy. I'm not counting on him a bit in 2014 but if he turns into something then that's a bonus. I know injuries happen but some seem to be more predisposed to them than others. Didn't he have some injury issues in college?

 

I mentioned this a while back. sub packages are becoming more of the norm. in one sentence people want DL thrown out for his predictability and the next they say these guys don't fit our 3-4. 35% of the time we were in our base 3-4. if Donald plays 65% of the time, why not? our D is changing to keep up. DL isn't done yet coming up with defenses.

 

We played more nickle and dime defense last year because of the injury to Foote than in any year with Tomlin/Lebeau (by far). And even then we had 2600 total snaps counts in 1070 defense plays (about 2.5 per play).

Our D-line snap counts aren't going down this year. And I'm worried Hageman is our FIRST round pick and we have focused on him singularly because of need. Hageman/Tuitt are probably great value in the 2nd round, but not pick #15 in my opinion.

Nothing about McLendon makes me think DE. He's a little over 6'-1". He doesn't have long arms. He's "quicker" when you compare him to Casey Hampton but that's not saying much. Quicker than DE's? Quicker than Keisel? No. People need to realize what McLendon is. He's Chris Hoke version 2.0. Not bad. Not good. Serviceable. The more snaps you give him, you probably have a point of diminishing returns.

Just like Hoke, he probably can, if pressed, play DE in a pinch. But he's not going to play DE better than how he plays NT. That would be unrealistic. And he's not that great at NT so throwing him more snaps at DE isn't really improving your team. I doubt he plays DE better or with more production than Ziggy Hood.

Fangupo had TWELVE snaps last year. TWELVE. If he's the "key" to our defensive line, throw in the towel on the season and put Colbert's head on a spike, because that would be a terrible evaluation of talent and preparing the roster for the season.

Keisel almost HAS to be brought back. And his salary has to make Keisel WANT to come back. I think if Keisel is this roster, he's getting 700-800 snaps as the starter. And that even if we draft a DE high in the draft. Remember how many snap counts Heyward got as a rookie? Hood?

This year snap counts should be:

Heyward - 1000
Keisel - 750
McLendon - 450
Thomas - 225
Rookie DE - 150
Misc. - 50

TOTAL = 2625, which sounds about right where we need to be. Even then I would worry about the QUALITY of those snap counts. Those snaps from Keisel and McLendon aren't going to be above average level. Heyward's snap count quality is going to be very good so you hope that helps.

Overall, that's an average line with Keisel and a pretty bad line without him. Just part of the reason we're 16-16 over the last 32.

 

Oh how silly of me. I forgot measurables are the be all end all. I've seen mocks with us taking Hageman with Donald still on the board. No thanks even if he is 6'6 300+ which should automatically make him a hall of famer. The basis of this post is about needing help on the DL and if that's the direction we are looking to go with the 15th pick,give me the guy they are comparing to Geno Atkins and maybe even better. There's no way we can use a guy like that....he doesn't fit. . I'm not saying he should be our pick at 15 but if we have our heart set on a DL he's the best choice.

 

Arnfelt seemed to be beating nearly all of the mano y mano blocking schemes in the preseason last year and was hustling to the ball. He was playing against backups but, shoot, he was a backup. He'll get more opportunity this year and we'll see how he does against higher quality OL and against the occasional double team. I have high hopes for the kid. He may not be Aaron Smith 2.0 but he's got a chance to be pretty darn good.

 

I think he needs his shot as well. I agree with the assessment. smart,strong,big and quick with a year under his belt over anything I'm seeing in the draft this year. let's not forget we lost Williams for a season, but he still was here working to rehab and don't think some teaching wasn't going on and some bulk up work too. he is also big,fast and strong. as a backup this year, getting a handful of snaps a game why not see what he's got too. trial by fire. with Thomas, fangupo and mclendon able to play some DE if needed and Williams as the young backup, I think we could be alright. arnfelt would be capable in some sub packages too. he and heyward as the two down linemen may work. it will be fun to watch but I'd go with what we have in arnfelt over a forced draft pick.

 

I called this a month ago on this site.....We draft Nix at 15 move McLendon to DE and sign Kiesel at vet min to mentor Mc for a year. Whats not to like?

 

As you know I like stats as they point us to things not readily seen but I also believe stats can be skewed, made to support an opinion that isn't accurate.

A- OUR DL is a weak point in our defense.
1) We have but one solid D-Lineman ( DE ) and that's Heyward.
2) We have but one good D-Lineman ( NT ) and that's McLendon.
3) We have but one back-up ( in Baby zilla ) and that's a question mark in itself.
4) We have question marks in our young crop ( Arnfelt & Williams ) and a true unknown in Fangupo.
B- Our DL will be adding too-
1) I fully expect at this point For Keisel to be brought back late in the off-season
2) I fully expect the DL to be addressed in the draft but How?
a- Do we draft Nix and move McLendon to DE. He isn't Dontari Poe so I doubt he goes by pick 15,
b- Do we draft Hageman and plug him in @ RDE and hope for the best.
c- Do we wait and draft BPA mid to late rds.

Keisel- His last 2 games he played well and effective. He absolutely is our best option and not a bad one. He must be replaced very soon but not doubt he has another solid year in him if he remains healthy.

Heyward- Nuff said

McLendon- Your comparison to Hoke is valid. I don't think he is a prototypical 3-4 DE but that doesn't stop him from being able to have success there just like him not being a prototypical 3-4 NT has stopped him from having success there. I am alone in my feeling we should switch back to a 4-3. Hood was a 4-3 1-gap DT but he's gone. McLendon would make a solid 4-3 NT ( 1-tech ) ...... I know, we don't have the faster 4-3 DE either.

Fangupo- yes he is the key and here's why. If he can start at NT we can move McLendon to DE and use Kesiel as a rotational guy keeping him fresh. If he can be a solid back-up he can spell McLendon. If he cannot be either ( as supposed by your snap count analysis ) then he must go and that will require the position being addressed too early in the draft. I'm hoping Woods took his snaps for other reasons and believe they wanted to keep Woods to replace Keisel.

Bottom line our defense is weak across the board. The safety positions are good this year ( I really wanted Calvin Pryor) but our DL and LB corp needs help just about equally. The CB position needs on good solid talent. Keisel must be resigned to maintain effectiveness and buy us time.


Cajun-

 

TBH, what does Keisel need an agent for if he signs for the vet minimum? Maybe this is just his agent trying to get paid.

 

Hey, agents gotta eat too!