Higher in the all-time list:Brees vs Ben?

?!


No one is talking down to anyone. I am merely using correct language. For that matter, you are the one who keeps using the appeal to pity fallacy. That is point number one.


For two, the page I presented to you in the previous post was stat tracking by Yahoo. There isn't any "ass kissing involved", only stats. Other sites such as Pro Football Reference would have the same data as Yahoo would.


Most of all for three, I have answered the question that the OP has presented; repeatedly. Again, what I think vs what is correct are two different things. You keep conflating both. That isn't an ad hominem. That is the truth.



Overall, you haven't directly challenged my argument at all. If you can tell me, with evidence, that Big Ben was more dominant than Drew Brees for a longer period of time, I will happily respond with a rebuttal.

 

This is fine.


Why others have essentially made this thread into a paradoxical fallacy of biblical proportions is something I still don't have the foggiest. Liking Big Ben is one thing. Saying another player that was objectively better, with evidence, doesn't discredit Big Ben's own accomplishments by any measure.

 

Right. So you're talking to someone who played the position, but you say you are going to "assist me". If you disagree with something, that's fine. Don't try to act above me here. I know a lot more about playing the position than you do and what part weather has in it. I'm talking football, and you bring up pity fallacy. It's a joke and a complete copout from you. Total BS on your part.

There are no quarterbacks or coaches that say that weather has no effect on quarterback play. You can't unless someone is lying about it. Weather has an adverse effect on quarterback play. It is an established FACT of playing football. Any efforts by you to avoid it or deny it or talk around it just proves that you don't know what you're talking about. Therefore, any quarterback that plays less football in adverse weather conditions is able to play the game at a higher level because they don't have to make adjustments for wind, rain, snow, sleet, mud, etc... Stop denying the obvious by trying to obfuscate the issue talking gobbledegook BS.

If you want to make this into just answering the original poster and pretend you didn't make any other claims about Ben being a couple levels below Brees, you keep on being you. You are clearly dodging here and I'm sick of trying to nicely explain something that any 14 year old that played Pop Warner football would know instinctively. Get off your self-created pedestal and try reality on for size. You're not impressing anyone with your "pity fallacy" BS trying to avoid looking foolish by throwing out big words and accusations to distract from the fact that you're off base here. Nobody here is saying that Brees is a fraud or isn't a great player. It is you that is claiming Big Ben is much less of a player....like you said: "a couple levels below Brees" by your estimation. That's all this entire argument is about and you know it.

 

So again, point out in which I acted above you. You repeatedly using the appeal to pity fallacy isnt helping your cause; not an argument the same. This is point number one.


Point number two about the weather has already been answered. Yahoo has the stats for Drew Brees' indoor vs outdoor split there. Pro Football Reference does as well. There are other sites to show his complete career Stating that he had a superior advantage in the dome is 100% false unless there is an argument to state that his overall performance dipped tremendously in outdoor weather. Given the fact that it didnt and he was still dominant outside the dome, weather is a non factor.



Number three, it is 100% true to say that Drew was the more dominant player. It is also 100% true to say that Drew Brees' accomplishments and achievements reflect this. You havent offered a rebuttal as to how Big Ben was better than Brees in either regard.



Finally, which is a furthet deep dive of point number onr, the appeal to pity fallacy is actually a term; correctly identified as the argumentum ad misericordiam. The fact of the matter is that we are debating and the term is being correctly used for you are attempting to use emotion rather than logic. That, by definition, is correct usage of the term. It isnt a personal attack but a correct identification of fallacy in a debate.



So I ask again, are you going to rebuttal the claim that Big Ben was more dominant or not?

 

We're supposed to be talking football here, and you're too busy trying to impress people here and trying to convince everyone you have a big brain.

Brother, you need some help because you are putting on a show here that nobody wants to see performed.

I don't desire to go round and round with anyone that doesn't understand the effect of weather on playing football. No matter how you try to change the focus of the discussion or how many times you attempt to impress me with Latin terms and breaking out your dictionary to speak of everything but football, the bottom line is that you are denying something that is universally understood by anyone closely associated with playing the game. That is an undeniable fact no matter how you try to dodge it.

You win. I don't wish to discuss this with you any further because this ceased to be a real discussion a while ago.

 

I have been very consistent in doing so since I have made my stance multiple pages ago. Burden of proof still remains on you to disprove my claim of how Big Ben was better than Brees; a topic that is 100% relevant to the discussion. I have given you multiple data points and rebuttals supporting my claim. You have not.


Once again, basic language isn't some *Latin terms*. Basic language is just that; basic. You not knowing specific terms doesn't discredit their existence. Regardless, your insistence on my using ad hominem attacks while that being factually untrue is not relevant to the topic either.

 

I know and understand the terms you are using. They simply have no place in a football discussion about how weather influences quarterback performance.

This is you once again being an obnoxious poster that insists on telling everyone that you know everything, when simple knowledge of the sport says otherwise.

Here you are trying to announce a victory in a discussion, when you haven't ever even addressed how every other quarterback has higher ratings while playing indoors compared to outdoors. You didn't answer anything. You avoided the data that was presented to you and acted like it wasn't there. That isn't being intellectual. That is demonstrating some sort of psychological weakness that your attempts at acting above it all and false bravado tries to conceal.

The fact that you presume that I don't understand the terms you have been using is demonstrating your arrogance.

You aren't fooling anybody. You're acting like a pompous infant and simply ignoring what you don't want to see, so now you are attempting to claim that you have superior intellect over me. I think anybody here reading this thread can decide for themselves what has transpired in this thread and how you have approached things here.

I'm very secure in what I know and my own intelligence. It appears you are not.

 

First of all, since all of this comes down to opinions, nothing can be proved or disproved. Second, I think everyone will agree that numbers don't tell the whole story, there are just too many variables, especially with QB's. I personally believe that using the term GOAT for an individual in a team sport makes no sense. But as for this discussion, I would say that if I am starting a team, I would be happy to have Ben as my QB, Brees as my QB, Peyton as my QB, Marino, Fouts, Rodgers, Allen, Burrow, I think they are equally great.

 

I did many times on here already. I beat a dead horse enough to others, and didn't want to do it to you. I respect a lot if what You say, I believe you are way wrong on this.

 

Playing in the mall, and playing outdoors is two different things for every single player on the team.............................
Especially the Qb. Ask Brees, and the boys how they felt in the NFC championship game in Chicago. They were the high flying Saints that year till they hit the cold climate at Soldier Field

 

Did you provide evidence on how Big Ben was better than Drew Brees overall though? That would answer the question asked.

 

Once again, no one is fooling anyone. That is you believing I am fooling anybody. Repeatedly playing into the appeal to pity isnt getting you nor this debate anywhere. I am giving my argument and asking for a rebuttal to it; nothing more.


Overall, not a victory unless the evidence guides it that way. That much is true. Until you actually make an argument on in what point in time that Big Ben was better than Brees, your argument doesn't hold weight nor is it effective.


So again, do you have an argument favoring Big Ben over Drew Brees or not?

 

Swap where the two played in their time in the NFL?

Nobody in their right mind would choose Breeze over Ben to play in Pittsburgh against the AFC North.

It would be a toss-up between Ben and Breeze to play in New Orleans against the NFC South.

Case closed

 

I thought it was obvious.