Higher in the all-time list:Brees vs Ben?

This is very impressive that Warner was able to lead one of the worst franchise in sports history to the super bowl!...And it was with a terrible head coach.Whiz was a great OC but his record without Warner in his career as head coach was hot garbage!

 

Ben does not belong in the same sentence with asparagus

 

We agree on the bold part.

But you seem to be arguing that this made Brees more "dominant". Really it made him more "consistent"...which he certainly was.

I think it's clear that the highs that Ben had (early in his career) were better than Brees ever was.

Ben was much better than Brees early in their careers.

Brees was better than Ben later in their careers. Because he stayed more consistent than Ben as he aged. I think because what made Ben special was (1) his ability to take physical abuse (2) his willingness to take big risks (and win) and (3) his competitiveness / need to win. As he got older, points (1) and (2) declined (but not 3). So he couldn't take as many big risks, and his ability to convert on those risks declined. Brees was more of a traditional QB, so he stayed more consistent (declined slower).

Brees was a very good player. Deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. You'd be very happy to have him as your QB (unless you're the Chargers apparently). He was more consistent across his entire career. But I don't think there's a run for Brees like Ben had from 2004 - 2010.

So I'd take Ben for their entire careers because his highs were higher.

If we're only talking post GB SB, I think there's a much better argument for Brees. Although since Brees won his SB before that, it's still close. Although Brees won more playoff games after 2010 (5 vs 3), Ben made the playoffs more times (6 vs 5). I think we would have had better playoff results if we were in the NFC too. Because the AFC has had the majority of the elite QBs for all of Ben's career.

 

As always QBs are much more important than HCs.

Even for very good HCs. Especially for mediocre HCs like Whiz.

 

Aside from all of this, I really thought Brees did good stuff off the field re: hurricane Katrina.

And thinking that he isn't as good as Ben isn't anything close to a slight.

 

Also... Brees didn't have to deal with the Ravens and Bengals (Palmer, Dalton, Burrow years). The NFC South has been one of the worst divisions since the realignment in 2002. While AFC North has usually been strong.

 

i already have.

 

Brees couldn't have stood up to the physical play in the AFC North. His career wouldn't have lasted 5 years going the likes of Ray Lewis and Suggs.

 

I know this is only 5 games but Brees was 1-4 vs ravens in his career

 

Yeah lining up against the Ravens with sleet hitting your face proved to be a lot different animal than playing the Panthers or Falcons in a dome.

 

Even the bengals from 2008 to 2017 had several strong defense

 

even the browns defense gave us trouble through the years. They were truly tough outdoor games specially in november on.

 

I don't get this either.

His argument in the post you're quoting is basically: Results are how you judge who is better.

His conclusion is: The guy with the better results is isn't as good as the guy with worse results.

In previous posts, he has also specifically argued that results (i.e. Ben won 2 SBs and went to a 3rd) aren't how you judge a QB.

Brees is obviously very good. I think Ben is clearly better.

 

I tried saying this earlier.
How can people that think Payton is a way better HC than Tomlin think that Brees was a better Qb than Ben. It doesn't add up.

 

I've always found it funny that some of the same people that say certain coaches regular seasons don't count, or matter, but somehow certain players do.

 

On the previous board I came from, I would usually say that I thought Payton was the best "current" comp to Tomlin (this was pre Brees retirement and Payton jetting to avoid the rebuild) and the Cowher was the best "historical comp" to Tomlin.

All three are good to very good coaches.

All had pretty consistent success over long stretches.

Two of them had HoF QBs for their entire careers (at the time).

I think career win rates were pretty similar.

 

I wonder how in the hell any Steeler fan would even ask this question.

But since it's asked... Ben was the better QB. He could see over his OL. He could shake off DL sacks with his strength and get the ball completed. The man was tough as nails. Brees isn't in his class.

 

Football should be played outdoors

On grass

Or mud