In comparing Howard and Alar ask THIS question-

How would you judge Howard if he was on Penn State with that coaching and wr talent AND got injured during the season (like Drew) and never had his championship run? Do we perceive Howard as a guy who just wins?

Is our impressions of one being a winner and the other a choker centered more around circumstances?

 

we will be lucky if either of them starts a regular season NFL game this year.

 

why are they here ---if not to play---- are they just benchwarmers

 

Did we really need yet another thread making excuses for Allar's habit of choking in the big moments when he was at Penn State? If you want to argue that Howard had a big advantage in his overall statistics and team success, that's fine, but players either step up in big moments or they fail. In college, Howard stepped up when it mattered most and Allar did not.

 

I'm not rooting for one over the other, but I believe a qb has a lot to do with so called circumstances. Awesome Wr have nothing to do with bad footwork, improper throwing mechanics.
What I actually wish is neither played for Penn State, or Ohio State because a bunch of people on here are never going to see the truth of the situation, they are only going to go with the one who went to the team they rooted for in college.
I wish one was from Arizona state, and the other from New Mexico state. LoL. As a SEC/Razorbacks fan, I will root for whomever is best. Notice I didn't make excuses for us to take T. Green. How many of his Wrs were drafted, but guess what , a lot of that is because of his Qb play. It's hard to be a great Wr if Your Qb sucks, or can't get you the ball.

 

What if we lived in a world with no hypotheticals.....

 

You say that it has nothing to do with bad footwork, but you don't acknowledge that Will Howard had bad footwork and bad throwing mechanics. Howard has never stepped into his throws and optimized his throwing motion to create power. He throws flat footed way to often and doesn't get his lower body involved nearly enough in his throwing motion. He throws the ball like a fade away jumper at times. It is a known flaw and one of the things that made him a sixth-round draft pick. He doesn't create enough velocity on the football to throw into NFL tight windows. Howard's arm is not strong, but he will be able to get more on his throws if he improves on his footwork and steps into throws with a better weight shift to maximize his power.

Saying that people are never going to see the truth because they root for either team doesn't apply to everyone here. Most of the Ohio State fans think Howard balled out and came through and that having the best wide receiver group in the history of college football doesn't matter. They say he's clutch, but with a great offensive line and two stud running backs in the backfield and receivers running wide open all the time. All this after four seasons with Kansas State where he completed less than 60% of his passes in all but one season. Where were his great stats and clutch performances with Kansas State over four years? That's the equivalent to Allar's entire four-year career at Penn State, and Allar missed much of his final season because of injury, so Howard has also had much more time to develop his game in college.

Again, good for Howard and their fans. He did play well and played his best when it mattered. They should be proud of him. He was a terrific college player on a team that won a national championship.

Most of the Penn State fans on here were hard on Allar during his career with Penn State. They felt he underachieved while there and couldn't come through in big moments. They are loyal to the school, and they give the school and the coach the benefit of the doubt instead of the quarterback. Allar played with awful receivers throughout his career. There were very few receivers that had any real talent while there and were drafted in the NFL. I'm not making it up. I am simply stating fact. When you combine that with playing him in an offense that didn't suit him and asking him to run the ball instead of having him play in a more sophisticated passing offense, it's easy to see that there are reasons why things didn't always work out well. Again, they are reasons....not excuses.

Here's Will Howard's career stats. https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/will-howard-2.html,

What explains the first years of Howard's career compared to his final year at Ohio State? Bad footwork, bad throwing mechanics, or the talent he played with? I think it's probably a combination of playing in a better offensive system that clicked with him, and playing with amazing talent. Howard got better and he played with elite talent everywhere on the field.

Again, I want Howard to get a chance and to play well. I have stated this over and over again in many threads here. I just don't get the people bashing Drew Allar and trying to make it sound like only Drew Allar has bad footwork and bad mechanics. Will Howard had the same issues without the arm talent at Ohio State. That's just a fact that many are overlooking.

We haven't seen Howard throw a pass since he graduated in 2024. We don't know what has improved or what hasn't. My hope is that he has been working non-stop on his footwork and creating more power. If he can do that, he has a chance to do some things because I think he's a bright kid.

 

You started by saying not all fans are going to biased, but there was a great deal of pro-Penn State bias in your post.

Both quarterbacks had mechanical issues, but Howard was a more accurate passer by the end of his college career. He did play his best when games mattered the most. Allar consistently came up very small in those moments at Penn State.

Allar has arm talent. He has very poor mechanics and a history of making poor decisions under pressure. I heard the Roethlisberger comparisons because he is a big guy who can shake off tacklers, but the similarity ends there. A big part of Roethlisberger's greatness was that he kept his eyes down the field no matter what was going on around him. He was looking to throw the ball when he was shaking off pass rushers. Allar doesn't do that. His eyes drop. When the pressure is on, he puts his attention on that instead of looking for the open man far too often. His footwork and other mechanics can probably be fixed, but I'm not sure the other issue can. That's a tough one to overcome.

 

I think most of these QB issues at this level can be fixed IF the QB is coachable, willing and capable of breaking away from past tendencies. That's what it seems to come down to with these two. Which one is more coachable under McCarthy?

Josh Allen apparently rebuilt his throwing motion to become a much more accurate NFL QB. Rodgers cleaned up mechanics too as he evolved as a passer. Peyton Manning learned how to throw all over again after his neck issues. He was the king of repetition to perfect his talent. You have to be really determined and dedicated to your craft.

So, which one of these guys is more determined and dedicated?

 

Big Ohio State and Howard fan here, but let the best QB win!

Don't forget, Howard is from PA and Allar is from Ohio! BWhahahaha!

They're both Steelers now.

 

He left as soon as he could

 

And Howard is from PA. He left as soon as he could. BWhahaha

 

Rodgers is in town this weekend, so I'm thinking a deal is in the works.

 

I think it's very hard to make any kind of realistic judgements about QBs based on their play in the NCAA.

Even pros can't really scout QBs.

I am generally against the idea of drafting mid-round QBs. If you don't like a QB enough to draft him in the first (even trade up for him), he is probably going to fail in the NFL. Not always true, but probably pretty close.

Hopefully we actually get to see these guys play in NFL-like situations (late in preseason games it's still more like playing college all stars than pros). Howard getting hurt and missing the preseason was really disappointing last season (obviously).

 

I think you will see little of Rodgers or Rudolph in preseason

Preseason may actually be fun to watch for once

 

Unlikely for Rodgers

 

Did he even take a snap in preseason last year

 

no

 

That is kinda what I thought. I talked about no bias, and I believe I got bias right away. LoL. Although I could be wrong, and it wouldn't be the 1st time. The whole eyes drop is a bad thing in any Qb, and something I always look for. You can't play Qb to your best if You aren't looking to pass no matter what's going on. Eyes must always be downfield.

 

You can't dismiss the lack of talent Penn State had at WR during Allar's time there, I don't think any of those scrubs are in the NFL. Their WRs went a whole playoff game without catching a pass.

 

I'm not dismissing that, but didn't his inaccuracy also contribute to that lack of production by the receivers? It isn't the receivers' fault that Allar has poor footwork. It isn't their fault he makes poor decisions when the game is on the line. It isn't their fault he drops his eyes to watch the pass rush.

 

If Will Howard played at Penn State, he doesn’t get drafted at all. If Drew Allar played at Ohio State, he’s a first-round pick. Talent matters, but the program, supporting cast, scheme, and resources matter just as much.

 

I'm not making Roethlisberger comparisons, so you can stop right there. That's on someone else....not me. Stop trying to frame the conversation on something I didn't say.

How do you start off a post responding to me, yet you are responding to something I didn't say. You may want to slow your roll.

Howard was more accurate by completion percentage while at Ohio State, but he had more wide-open receivers and didn't have to fit the ball into tight windows or throw the ball as perfectly to complete them.

Allar had a higher completion percentage over his entire career at Penn State over Howard while Howard was at Kansas State for four seasons. How do you explain that?

You keep saying that Allar doesn't keep his eyes downfield looking for the open man. Watch some film. No, watch lots of film. Get back to me about all those open receivers. There aren't that many of them. That's the point you are ignoring.

The biggest unknown is with Allar's processing and decision-making. The problem is that much of that is because he was in a horrible offense that didn't have a lot of outs built into the system like more sophisticated passing offenses. Allar has a LOT to learn at the next level because he will be operating in more sophisticated offenses with more options and route trees to operate within. He has a big learning curve exactly because of the lack of the depth of coaching at Penn State. This isn't conjecture. This is simply the design of the offense he played in.

Howard hasn't been able to throw the ball in tight windows at the college level. What makes you think he is going to be able to do it at the NFL level? I mean really, what have you seen that makes you believe his footwork and throwing mechanics have improved and put a few mph on his fastball? Howard hasn't thrown a pass in real NFL action since he was drafted, so all this talk about what Howard is going to do, or the insinuation that he is so much more well equipped to succeed is based on nothing other than you like him better than Allar. You have nothing else to base it on.

Howard threw 48 TD 25 INT at Kansas State.

Howard threw 35 TD 10 INT at Ohio State in his one season there. It's all in the link I gave in my post you quoted above. 83 TD 35 INT for his five-year college career.

Allar threw 61 TD 13 INT over his entire career at Penn State.

Not bad for a quarterback playing in the best conference in the country that keeps his eyes down in the pocket and playing with ****ty receivers. Not exactly the flawed turnover machine that many are trying to make him into. He takes care of the ball better than Howard has, and THAT is something that can carry over to the NFL. Players that turn the ball over a lot at the college level rarely turn the ball over a lot less in the NFL.