Will Howard

In single elimination games circumstances always play a big part in whether a team advances. In 2008 and 2010 PIT was crushed by NE in the regular season. And even in 2005 they lost to them. In all three SB seasons PIT did not have to play against Brady in the playoffs to make it to the SB. If you really want to dive into the details, if not for an arm tackle by Roethlisberger, the Steelers don't advance to the SB in 2005.
I don't know enough about GB's history to say what they faced in the post season during Rodgers' reign. But as Cowher used to say it is the fine line in the NFL.

 

And now back to everyone's fav Will Howard! The training camp darling.

Is he the next franchise? Or the next fizzle?

Is it all hype? Or is it real? Lets find out shall we.

 

All of those articles say that MM developed Brooks and Hasselback and push back against MM Claims of anything else.

Half of the links you are posting argue MM shouldn’t get credit for Rodgers.

Also ALL of the links you are posting are using the same source for the claim that MM is a QB guru - the PR packet that MM put together for the Steelers during the interview process.

There is ONE person in the NFL who thinks MM is a total QB whisperer and that’s MM. I guess Matt Hasselback is on board too.

Everyone else that’s looked into the details is suspicious of the claim. Including the authors of the articles you posted. Let alone the actual stats.

If MM gets Howard playing lights out or has Ty Simpson or Drew Allar as functioning NFL starters it will be an achievement worth his lofty self promotion.

Until that happens; I strongly advise everyone rooting for the Steelers to be skeptical.

 

I’m skeptical of Howard because of his draft position and hasn’t wow-ed so far.
could be wrong, but looks like just another mason Rudolph

 

Let’s list the successful OSU QBs. Stroud and Tomczak and a bunch of busts.

 

You got any evidence that supports MM developing anyone aside from Brooks and Rodgers?

You claim it exists but can’t seem to provide any.

This isn’t about feelings and vibes.

Data is how we test things. And the available data, of which there is a great deal, is 50/50 AT BEST.

Your own “supporting” articles contained multiple quotes debunking the claim.

Logic and reason beats out vibes every time.

 

And yet with saying all that one SB appearance with what many has said was one of the Greatest Qbs ever to play the game. Either McCarthy isn't all that, or Rodgers is over hyped. I mean if people can b!+ch , and complain about Tomlin only making the SB twice with Ben, and so called wasting His years, as I've heard it put many, many times here. Then what does that say about a HC that had a 4 time MVP Qb, and could only make it once??
This is all I'm getting at. Believe me, I want McCarthy to be awesome. As a Steeler fan I would be a fool not to.

 

Playing with a 42/43-year-old Rogers is not the best scenario one can hope for.
Lot of great QB's didn't make the Super Bowl, Rogers did make 1 and was electric.
I don't worry about rings, I'm more concerned about output.

Rogers definitely was a plus last season but not all on the field.
It was his 'coaching' and all those skills at reading defenses that helped us.
What didn't help was the fact when he knew teams were going to go after him and had the pass rush to do that, he wasn't very good.

What would year 2 look like with Aaron Rogers?
The one guy who really benefits is Will Howard. The bigger question is, what is Howard's ceiling? Can McCarthy raise it?
If the Howard praise is real, I could see Howard finishing games where Rogers struggles.
If the praise is a smokescreen, then maybe Mason.

The wild card.
The Steelers has 3 3rd round picks. Most likely they will pick at QB with one. That pick will probably be McCarthy's pick.
I think should they do this, then Howard's praise is a smokescreen. They are looking for better.
Several names pop up.. I don't have a favorite.
Nussmeier(sp?) and Allar strike me a development QB's that do have potential. I could see them using a pick there to testing the waters.
Nussmeier at times has looked like a top 2 or 3 QB... that abdominal injury probably plagued him a lot. I liked his Sr Bowl outing.
Drew Allar would be a challenge for McCarthy in ironing out all those inconsistencies and mining out the Allar I sometimes see that looks like a legit day 1 Franchise pick.
There's a couple others.

But anyway, the picture of Rogers, Mason and Howard is a real possibility. Not my favorite, but stiill.....

 

The answer is: Roethlisberger and Rodgers have something in common. They performed poorly in the playoffs after winning Super Bowls. Tomlin and McCarthy deserve some blame, but most of it should go to the QB, IMHO.

Still, I stand by my opinion that Tomlin should have been fired after the JAX playoff loss.

Actually, Rodgers had more impressive playoff wins (after SBXLV) against Cowboys/Romo in particular..... than Ben ever did post SBXLIII. Ben was mediocre even during the wins in '15 and '16.

 

Ben had a good game against Denver in the 2015 playoffs over 300 yards and no turnovers, that scrub RB Toussaint cost them the game with that late fumble.

 

Ben regular season TD/INT 2.18

Post season 1.28

Great QBs step up in the playoffs not nosedive

 

Agree. Sadly... like the Tebow game, too many players were not near 100% or on IR for the '15 divisional round vs Denver.

 

I've never looked at his playoff record until today and man is it brutal. 1-4 in NFC championship games. Abysmal losses to some real one off teams as well as the Niners having GB's number. Pedestrian stats in some of the losses. It reminds me of Manning during most of his time in Indy, put up incredible numbers in the regular season but couldn't get past the Pats when they need to.

 

I guess one could look at what might have been had Ben or Aaron not been there those years.

 

I have this thought with Bubby

 

The packers and steelers had some awful playoffs defense after 2010...We all know those things with the steelers but the one by the packers in 2011,2012,2016 was just brutal(same for 2009 before their super bowl win)...Both teams had also similar scheme on defense....The only difference,McCarthy was a offensive coach and Tomlin was a defensive coach.....

 

McCarthy had Kevin Greene who knew all our ways and we never change anything

 

The ONLY positive quote in the articles was from Matt Hasselback.

Here are samples of the rest of your supporting articles: "...to say he had any true hand in developing Montana or Bono is like saying the painters erected the frame of the house."

"But it was his 2003 campaign that McCarthy should highlight everywhere he goes. Brooks was excellent. He recorded 24 touchdowns and took immaculate care of the football, throwing just eight interceptions in 16 starts."

"But the base of McCarthy's offense for years with Rodgers was relying on his superstar abilities to make up the differences. "

"Prescott had a great run under McCarthy, but is anyone really claiming that his coaching was what took him there? Or, just like Rodgers and Favre, was the player already at that level or about to reach it when McCarthy arrived?"

"But aside from his time in New Orleans developing Aaron Brooks, there is no other young quarterback McCarthy has developed. McCarthy is experienced, a winning coach, and has worked with plenty of elite players over his tenure, but don't get it twisted. Despite ownership's claims, his track record of developing a young quarterback is not what it seems."

You're counter to my argument is to post articles that MAKE THE EXACT SAME POINT I have been making since the hire. You believe that my skepticism on MM is somehow connected to my belief that Mike Tomlin is a first ballot HOF coach. One has nothing to do with the other. Tomlin didn't get fired. He walked away. The Steelers didn't make that decision for him, Tomlin made it. He's gone. Might not ever walk an NFL sideline again. Who knows?

My sole point in all of this is that MM has made incredibly bold claims during this hiring process. He tried to take credit for Joe Montana for crying out loud. Anyone can see that is ridiculous. It fits a pattern that MM displayed in GB and elsewhere of attempting to take credit for things that are most likely not his to claim.

We can then look at the actual NFL events that underly MM's assertion that everywhere he went, he did amazing QB things. Both my read on the situation and every single one of the articles you posted as some counterpoint, all reach the same conclusion - MM did some good things for Hasselback and Brooks. Laughable for Montana. Skeptical for Delhomme and Gannon. 50/50 for Rodger and Prescott.

Personally, I think MM calls a good game that allows his QB to have the chance to put up big #'s. His biggest flaw is the same one for almost all west coach offense guys that run the flavor that MM prefers, they forget about the run. Think Andy Reid. Mike Holmgren, Etc. I think MM had a good amount of credit for Rodgers mechanical changes. But....many of the rest are dubious claims. And if MM was so instrumental in Rodgers success....why is Rodgers basically silent on the issue now and previously?

 

That actually was the last time I thought we were a real threat to win a SB, but we can't really blame Toussaint, You are in trouble when You have to play that deep on the depth chart as starters , and He wasn't the only one

 

And Yet people slob over P. Manning, and He , and Ben are almost the same in TDs, and turnovers in the playoffs.

 

Agreed. People expect too much, and I only bring up McCarthy, and A. Rodgers lack of SB appearance for a reason of making a point. What Tomlin, and Ben did. If people think Tomlin wasted Ben's years, than the also have to think McCarthy wasted Rodgers year. You can't logically think one way, and not the other.
I myself believe they all did what they could, and SBs are hard to get to.