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was Collinsworth right?

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by mikeyg, Sep 25, 2023.

  1. mikeyg

    mikeyg Well-Known Member

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    was there a wholesale change from zone to double team blocking?

    it was / looked much improved.

    LOTS of more work to do - maybe we will see that CLE and SF have 2 of the stoutest fronts in the game, the rest of the season will show us that.

    BUT - it was nice to see us double some guys, push them back to the LBs on a few occasions and open up some holes.
     
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  2. jeh1856

    jeh1856 Elizabeth Taylor

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    I mentioned the reason they dumped Dotson was to change blocking schemes

    I just didn’t know which way was what

    Snd are the first 2-3 games a learning curve
     
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  3. pczach

    pczach Well-Known Member

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    They simply went with a power blocking scheme and moved away from the zone blocking they have been using. It obviously worked a little better and brings more aggression to the group. They were struggling to execute the zone blocking.

    There is still some work to do, and they should continue to get better in this scheme the more they use it. It is a little strange to scrap the zone blocking. They got rid of Dotson because they didn't think he was a good fit, and then they change the scheme....go figure. But at least they are admitting that something wasn't working and they made a call to try to move to something that will work. I give Tomlin and the coaching staff credit for making the change and trying something else.
     
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  4. MadtownDruankard

    MadtownDruankard Well-Known Member

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    Sounds better than saying we’re playing the worst defense in the NFL.
     
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  5. troybellringer55

    troybellringer55 Well-Known Member

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    They still aren't getting enough push. Cole got blown up so bad once yesterday I had PTSD of Kendrick Green flashbacks.

    He got blow up that he the the motion man in Heyward and it screwed the whole play up for a negative gain.
     
  6. steelersrock151

    steelersrock151 Well-Known Member

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    As of right now, that would be Denver.
     
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  7. steel machine

    steel machine Well-Known Member

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    They give up a couple points and you get down on them;)

    Wonder last time an NFL team scored 70 and I kind of think Miami should have toned it down after awhile or at least put in the third stringers. Maybe they did, I don't know.
     
  8. steelersrock151

    steelersrock151 Well-Known Member

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    I know the last touchdown pass was by their second string qb, and their last td run of 60+ yards was by the #2 rb. Then they had a 52 yard run by their third string rb. They knelt down on 4th down from the Denver 27. If they had wanted the record, they could have had the record.
     
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  9. Jammasterc

    Jammasterc Well-Known Member

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    He also did say That Steeler football was back.

    He would know.
     
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  10. TuRnDoWnForWaTT

    TuRnDoWnForWaTT Well-Known Member

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    That was embarrassing. Lol. I can't believe they haven't fired Mike Tomlin yet.
     
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  11. strummerfan

    strummerfan Well-Known Member

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    For the most part They gave up on the outside zone and ran a predominately power blocking scheme
     
  12. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82 Bitter optimist

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    Fairly sure Denver have that wrapped up this week
     
  13. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    What me and you have been saying before the start of the Season; Preseason at that.


    This Offensive Unit is still very young overall in terms of skill position players. It is one of the more older Offensive Lines in the NFL but not among the most experienced. Add in a Coordinator who JUST RECENTLY is cooperating with his QB and the first three weeks shouldn't be too much of a surprise.... well... except in Week 1 where I expected the Steelers to showcase a lot more fight against San Fran.


    Overall, I do believe that this Offensive Unit will get better after the bye. How much so remains to be seen but if last night's game was any indication, team is on the up 'n' up. Just have to keep that momentum going.
     
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  14. Thor

    Thor

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    Well, the Raiders aren't that bad. Total yards surrendered they rank 24th, but rushing and YPC they're 21st and 19th.

    Still a considerable step down from the Browns and 9ers, whose rushing Ds rank 3rd and 4th, respectively. (Due to the SSS of this season it's worth noting the 49ers were 2nd against the run in 2022; the Browns, however, were 25th.)
     
  15. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    You have to wonder where they would be if the weird saga with Jones was over and teams had to face both Crosby and Jones. I know a lot of Raiders fans who saw what Josh McDaniels did to the Broncos and want him fired before he wrecks the Raiders even more.
     
  16. Thor

    Thor

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    I don't disagree with this; last year's offense also came out flat, and they were able to work through a transition to a rookie QB and weather a dinged RB to be at least respectable in the second half of the season, increasing from 3.7 YPC over the first seven games to 4.4 the final 10. The problem I have is they returned four of the five starting o-linemen (for better or worse), and Seumalo has always been known for his run blocking.. and yet they still came out flat (even against the Raiders they only averaged 3.4 YPC).

    I know there are some obstacles here: Canada, Pickett's second year, integrating new faces into the lineup, etc., but I didn't expect them to come out taking two steps back from where they seemed to finish last year. I think they'll progress, it's just been a disappointment.
     
  17. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    As you said, it is still a young Offense. Very seldom do Young Offenses go into games points a pinging on the scoreboard. Only reason that the Dolphins can do this is because of how well they are coordinated by Mike McDaniel.


    While I do agree that this Offense should have not taken as many steps back as it did, it also illustrates how important it is to have someone who can place their weapons into winnable situations. Hell, before Tyreek Hill became Tyreek Hill, Andy Reid realized that, to fully unlock Hill's speed, he needed an equally freakish arm to go along with it. Even now, I stand by my draft grade of Patrick Mahomes; late 1st as while the arm talent and improvisational skills were easily something special, everything else was not. Once Mahomes got acclimated to the NFL.... the rest they say.. is history.



    As I see it, this Offense could go one of three different directions in 2024; pending on the 2023 Steelers Record.


    1.) Offensive Center: I think it is safe to say that, at this point, Mason Cole is serviceable.. .but simply isn't it. Need a major upgrade there.

    2.) Wide Receiver: George Pickens, Calvin Austin the Third and Diontae Johnson. That is, more or less, of what the team is working with currently. Little to nothing behind them.

    3.) Offensive Tackle: I get the hype surrounding Dan Moore Jr being a better Right Tackle but, allow me to pose a question. Given how much he struggles as a Left Tackle.. wouldn't that only be delaying the problem by placing him in an area where he presumably will struggle less?! Why not opt to go for a Right Tackle instead. Now, I was on the Amarius Mims bandwagon but then he sadly got hurt. Now, the Steelers did
    send scouts to the BYU-Arkansas Game and one player of note is Offensive Tackle Kingsley Suamataia; someone who has experience in both spots.




    Overall, while something as I stated seems too far into the distant future to think about, remember that Year Three will be even more critical for Kenny than Year Two. Not just because he will be 26 by then but also it is very likely he will have a new OC. With any luck, this new presumed OC will have more ways to unlock Kenny; providing him with better weapons and protection to boot.
     
  18. Thor

    Thor

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    Well, it's not really about pinging points up on the scoreboard, it's the lack of efficiency, execution, and identity in general. This isn't Canada's first rodeo, and year two with his QB, most of the line (presumably with an upgrade at LG), RBs, top two WR targets, etc., should at least look like a cohesive unit in what they're trying to do. Blips here and there are understandable - Heyward's wrong route last night, Pickett making the occasional wrong read, e.g. - but to have the offensive futility they have had on display smacks of more than youth to me.

    I agree that center is a big position of need for them. Most of their truly effective rushing eras have had one (Webster, Dawson, Hartings, Pouncey). As good as Freiermuth has been, not taking Humphries there made me wince a little.
     
  19. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    And Yet Sean Payton was wanted by quite a few people as a new Coach on here.
     
  20. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Oh trust me... I am FULLY AWARE of Canada's involvement with all of this. I also understand that, and I repeat again, young units do take time to develop; doubly so with so many new faces at the skill position. That all said, I do wholeheartedly agree.


    Part of being an NFL OC is ensuring that you place your weapons and Offensive Line into winnable situations. For this to happen, an OC must be both creative and innovative; repeating both over time of course. Canada has now logged in three seasons worth of being an OC. Fair enough on 2021 but not entirely. As you stated, missing out on Creed Humphrey is one aspect. For me, I was under the impression the Steelers would find a veteran based option in FA so Green can learn the ropes; oddly enough what they are doing with Broderick Jones even though Jones has far more accumulated snaps from College at a different position. Sadly, that Veteran Center never arrived; Kendrick Green being failed by the Steelers for not properly integrating him into the plan as a result. Hell, now that me and you both sit here, why the hell did it take so damn long to institute Pat Freiermuth into the Offense?! Did he find a new career path in underwater basket weaving or what?!


    To sum this up though, the entire Offense, Kenny especially, has been a disappointment up until yesterday... to say the least. However, and I shall repeat again, this young Offense's growing pains can be healed but an issue in Matt Canada cannot be. To solve the issue, you need to make it a problem first. One game of Offensive Production is clearly not enough.


    Between the two, Canada needs to stack more performances and Kenny with the Offense need to execute them as well.
     
  21. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Well!!!....


    Sean Payton has surpassed Nathaniel Hackett for having the worst start ever by a Head Coach. All the trash talk he did during the Off Season against Hackett as well. What goes around.. comes around! :lolol:
     
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  22. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    Winner, and I didn't like how He has been setting (IMO) Wilson up incase it all blew up with some of the things He's been saying. Glad I had money on Miami.
     
  23. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    To be honest though, even before Payton came into the building, Russell Wilson set himself up. Special privilege's such as his own Office like a Coach, own Personal Trainers, own Parking Space (some weird rules floating around about his space must be three total but I couldn't find any definitive sources) were just the tipping point of resentment against Russell Wilson. Recall this from Denver's loss against Indianapolis on that dreadful Thursday Night Game?!


    A picture in this case... truly is a thousand words...


    [​IMG]




    Yes... Melvin Gordon is not with the Broncos anymore but this one picture, KJ Hamler slamming his helmet at the end, was merely the beginning of the end for the appreciation teammates had for Russell Wilson. Again, paying a QB a 1/4 of a Billion Dollars to look like a slightly improved Mason Rudolph is just simply unacceptable.


    Now, in Sean's defense..., Russell has looked much better this season compared to last season. The Broncos Offensive PPG are higher, if not way higher, this time this season than last season and Russell Wilson's Completion Percentage and QBR are greater than they were a season ago. Even so, getting beaten down by 70 points is unreal. That is not the major takeaway from this game however. The major takeaway is that the Broncos are simply NOT A QB AWAY to win the Super Bowl. Furthermore, this is something that both me and you highlighted now since 2021 when the Rams did it; teams need to STOP trading all assets to acquire a QB who supposedly can magically fix everything wrong. The only massive reason why me and you both proved incorrect on the 2021 Los Angeles Rams is the fact that Matt Stafford was clearly a HOF Talent let down by a poorly run org in the Lions, the Rams having not one but four HOF Level Talents in Von Miller, Jalen Ramsey, Aaron Donald and Andrew Whitworth but also possessing one of the games brightest minds in Sean McVay. Notice how I have yet to cover Cooper Kupp or the other weapons that team possessed!! :eek:



    Will the Russell Wilson trade be the last of its kind?! Very doubtful as teams are now hellbent on repeating the 2021 Rams without realizing not just the "why it worked" but the "structure in place to make it so". Even this all said, "how does any of this have to do with Sean Payton?" you may be asking.


    ... Simple. Ego; lots of it to.


    Worst part for Denver?! They are stuck with Wilson and Payton is currently powerless to do anything about it. Will they attempt to move or release Russ?! It is very possible... but very unlikely.


    In short?! If I am a Broncos Fan, the question now is not if the season is lost... for that has already been answered. The question now becomes.. how many pieces will Denver have to sell off at the Trade Deadline. Trust me my man... massive trades are a coming in the Mile High.


    Between me and you?!... I hope the Steelers are interested in some of their players; Patrick Surtain II being a massive dream of mine but ya never know!!! We all thought Minkah Fitzpatrick would be a fairy tale of a trade and... look what happened there!


    Wouldn't mind a dream team duo of PS2 and JPJ!! :steelflag::steelflag::steelflag:
     
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  24. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    You already know I want P. Surtain2. I was pimping Him back when He was drafted. LoL
     
  25. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    We had our very slight differences but you turned out to be correct in PS2. Major reason why I wanted Jaycee Horn was he was a bit more athletic coming out.


    That said, never underestimate the power of being a former All Pro's Son! :eek:
     

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