Rank Steelers top WR alltime

Stallworth is no. 1.

 

We aren’t talking about best NFL receiver, we are talking best Steeler receiver.

As good as Brown was he crashed and burned with the team…he should have gotten every major Steeler stat, but the fact is he didn’t.

 

One way we can compare across eras is to pay attention to how each player ranked in relation to their peers. Brown was the best receiver in the NFL for at least four years. That is a tremendous measure of his dominance, one that clearly demonstrates that he was better than Ward. Ward was a more likeable guy. He was a better guy. He was a better blocker. None of that makes up for the fact that he was nowhere near the weapon that Brown was in the passing game.

 

Even with let's say 6 games(just to show My point which sailed over Your head....You look past the trees to see the forest....like many of Your kind do)with no tds, and only 2 games of a hundred yards without Ben, or Brady He was average....like 97% of Wrs without great Qbs. Not this living powerhouse that some wanted to make MVP of the league.....yet skip over the Guy actually throwing Him the ball. Of course that point was lost on You, and Your can't see the forest for the trees type personality.

 

Part of addressing your point is demonstrating that your evidence is flawed. You are basing the way it relates to Brown entirely on inaccurate information and a sample size that is too small to be valid. You claimed he went over 100 yards only once in those games, but it was two. The actual number of games is seven, not 11. Two games out of seven over 100 yards is 29 percent. One game out of 11 is nine percent. You do realize that is a significant statistical difference, right?

i do care about how people make arguments. It is a big part of what I do for a living. It is bad enough that you used a sample size that is too small to support your point, but you also used two statistical errors. Maybe they were just mistakes. Maybe they were intentional. Either way, they illustrate the overall flaw in your argument.

Brown played in 137 games after his rookie season. You think you can make a conclusion based on seven of them? That is comical.

I spent a great deal of time on the evidence rather than the overall point because you stubbornly clung to inaccurate evidence. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

That said, I'm still waiting for you to show some honesty and either admit you made a mistake, admit you were gaslighting, or give us the dates of those four other games.

 

Putting aside your reliance on flawed, inaccurate evidence and ad hominem attacks, there is plenty of evidence that works against your point. Historically, there have been Hall of Fame receivers who played most or all of their careers without a great quarterback. Think of guys like Steve Largent and Art Monk.

Want something more recent? AP's All-Pro wide receivers last year were Justin Jefferson, Tyreek Hill, and Davonte Adams. Is Kirk Cousins a great quarterback? Is Tua Tagovailoa? What about Derek Carr? If the answer to all three of those questions is no, and it should be, then how is it the three best receivers in the NFL last year did not have great quarterbacks if it is nearly impossible to be great without one?

 

That doesn't matter, team leaderboard be damned. Ward was a consistent starter for 13 years with the Steelers, while AB was for 7 (87 games started difference)... and AB is still second all time in yards and TD's and it isn't by a ton. He would've surpassed Ward had CTE not gotten the better of him with like 70 less starts with the team. AB's time with the Steelers is virtually unmatched by any other player at the position, ever. Randy Moss and Jerry Rice are the ONLY WR's I'd say are definitively better than AB was... but Brown DEFINITELY belongs in the same conversation as Calvin Johnson, Marvin Harrison, Larry Fitz, T.O., etc. His best was some of the best all-time.

I love Ward to death (and he brought more than just his skill as a WR to the table), but AB was a MUCH better player than Hines was. He was just that good.

 

Again ....Forest.....Trees.....
I said 97% of Wrs, and You give Me 3 out of about 196 Wrs in the league. Again Forest ....Trees....LoL.

 

One played with HOF Qb Ben at the top of His game most of His career......the other played with .....Mike Tomczak, K. Stewart, K. Graham, and T. Maddox, and then a young Ben in a run 1st offense. Yeah that doesn't make any difference. LoL

 

CeeDee Lamb was sixth in the league in receiving yards. Is Dak Prescott a great quarterback?
Jaylen Waddle was seventh. Tagovailoa?

Sure, A.J. Brown is up there with the elite and he has Hurts, but who were the other elite receivers in the NFL last season? Terry McLaurin has been very good with bad quarterbacks. Amon-Ra St. Brown had a monster season with Jared Goff throwing him the ball. Amari Cooper had Jacoby Brissett throwing him the ball most of the season. Mike Evans had the remains of Tom Brady throwing him the ball. Garrett Wilson put up big numbers with the Jets, who had horrible quarterback play most of the season.

If anything, elite receivers with elite quarterbacks were the minority. Stefon Diggs had a big year with Allen, but he was a stud with Cousins as his quarterback, too. The Chiefs didn't have a standout wide receiver, though I guess you could count Kelce.

What elite receiver in the NFL hasn't done it without an elite quarterback? Chase, who has always had Burrow? Anybody else?

This is mostly an anecdotal case I'm building, but it is still far better than the nonsense you threw up there about Brown, and not just because I managed to do it without blowing it twice with statistical errors, then lying about both mistakes to try to cover them up.

The difference here is those guys had large enough sample sizes of games without elite quarterbacks to make a real judgment. Brown didn't have that. He had seven games if you don't count the rookie season, which we both agreed shouldn't be included. That is seven games out of 121 from 2011 through 2018, which isn't nearly enough to make a valid case. We don't have enough information to know what Brown was without an elite quarterback. We do know that with one, he was the best receiver in the game, better than Ward ever was with that same future Hall of Famer.

Admit your mistakes. Take the L already. I'm actually starting to feel embarrassed for you.

 

FWIW...say I honestly believe the facts I present to be true, and they're subsequently shown to be incorrect. I'm not lying. I'm perhaps misinformed, but that's not the same thing.

 

I agree, but he didn't just present inaccurate facts. He doubled down when I presented the correct ones and he still seems to be sticking by the false claim that Brown played 11 games without Roethlisberger from 2011 through 2018, not seven. If he had just admitted the errors both times, he would not have been lying. To me, it seemed as if he was gaslighting both of us. I don't argue something in that way unless I know I'm right.

 

Any yet He is the true definition of can't see the forest through the trees. My point was about 97% of Wrs are made by Qbs, and He made it into arguing about one game. LoL. I even cut it below the actual number of game ,and made it 6. 2
Games with 100 yards , and No TDs without Brady , or Ben. That was the point. I'd say that is average even if You cut it to 5 games.

 

Believe Me .....I have always felt embarrassed for You. LoL.
Trees ....forest.
....

It's ok ....I've always felt embarrassed for You.
Trees......Forest......
Nothing wrong with Tua except He can't stay healthy. Hasn't since High school.
Yeah Kirk Cousins just sucks....it must suck to be top 10 , or higher most years in yards, and, or Tds. LoL.....with , or without Diggs. I could kick You in the head with My left shin,and knock You out, but just to argue.....You would swear it was My right hand, and beg, and plead with anyone to agree with You. While looking past being knocked out.....LoL.....Forest.....Trees.....You can't see one through the other. 150, and more Wrs in the league every year....You give me a handful. LoL. Forest.....Trees.

 

Before dealing with the larger flaws in your argument, I focused on the factual errors in your evidence related to Brown and his place in the ranking of Steelers at the position. In case you forgot, that is the topic of this thread. The first issue was your false claim that he went over 100 yards in only one game without Roethlisberger when it was two. Then we had to deal with your false claim that he played in 11 games in his career (not counting 2010) without either Roethlisberger or Brady when it was actually seven. If you are going to rely on such tiny, insignificant sample sizes, you should at least get your information right. Those arguments dragged on because you refused to accept the correct information, either ignoring it or lying rather than just admit you messed up. You still haven't admitted it was seven games, not 11.

One 100 yard game in 11 contests is nine percent. Two in seven games is 29 percent. That is a significant statistical difference. There is also the fact that it is impossible to take your point seriously if you can't even be bothered to get your statistics right, and in fact seem to lie rather than accept the corrections when given to you.

Seven games is too small of a sample size to make any sort of definitive statement about Brown. That is why the number of games and your misrepresentation of the facts is relevant.

While I am still going to remind you that you should admit your error regarding the total number of games, I felt it was time to address the rest of your poorly-argued point. You have no real answer for it, so you resorted that lame trees/forest thing that I dismantled as soon as you wrote it the first time.

 

I have now dismantled every part of your argument, your attempt to use false information, the way you lied to try to cover it up, and your sloppy, vague, and poorly-constructed point about receivers.

Of course, quarterbacks affect receivers, but I presented plenty of examples to show it simply isn't true to claim that 97 percent of receivers are average without a great quarterback. (Also, note you keep changing your mind whether it is Hall of Fame or great quarterback, the latter giving you a little more wiggle room.)

Now you are trying to move the goalposts from great quarterbacks to ones that aren't bad. That's so weak. Cousins isn't great, so you move the goalposts. Tagovailoa isn't great, so you move the goalposts. Even with that nonsense, you had no answer for the other receivers I brought up, all of whom are well above average without great quarterbacks.

Your overall point is a failure. The inaccurate facts you claimed have been debunked. Unlike your imaginary forest/trees thing, you have actually embarrassed yourself.

One of two things is happening here. One is that you really are this awful at constructing an argument. You use inaccurate information, lies and shifting premises to try to cover up your weakness. The other is that you are just trolling, but I don't see the point of that. You got me to argue? Um, congrats? What will you do for your next trick? Give your dog a treat and brag that you got him to eat it? I love to argue. Everybody knows this. It's not an accomplishment to get me to grind your horrible argument into dust.

 

LoL. I never changed My mind ....You are daft. LoL. I said Ab played with HoF Qbs Ben, and Brady. I never once....not once said only HoF Qbs make 97 % of the Wrs. You lie so freaking much. Show Me one time I said that. Just once.....You can't . Talk about a bold face lie. Trees... Forest. LoL. You actually make Me LoL.
At least You are entertaining. You give me a handful of examples out of a 160 wrs in the league a year, and some of You so called examples are downright wrong. Like Tua, and Cousins. LoL. So that makes it less than a handful out of 160 wrs. I never said all....I said 97%. Again.....Trees....Forest. Yes I repeat it.....because I have never met someone it fits so perfectly as You.

 

Didn't read. Don't care.

 

One particular sorry ass loser here needs to get a f#$%ing life. And it isn't S.T.D.

 

What's next? Are you going to deny you wrote that it was great quarterbacks that you posted about? When I pointed out many examples of receivers who were much better than average without great quarterbacks, you changed your story again to guys who aren't bad.

Cousins is not a great quarterback. Tagovailoa is not a great quarterback. My examples are accurate, but you continue to approach this discussion with no integrity at all. You are the only one who lied when I caught you in two factual errors and you tried to gaslight me and others about it. Now you want to change the numbers again, including all wide receivers instead of just the ones who are above average. I gave you a list of elite receivers in the NFL and most of them do not have a great quarterback. I gave you past examples, too. It is easier to argue when you abandon all integrity as you have done, yet you still manage to lose.

You were wrong about Brown. It was two games out over 100 yards without Roethlisberger, not one. It was only seven games without Roethlisberger, not 11. It was nowhere near enough of a sample size to make any definitive judgment of what he would have been without great quarterbacks. Your overall point about wide receivers doesn't hold up, either. There are plenty of outstanding receivers in the NFL right now who don't have great quarterbacks, including the three AP All-Pros.

You repeat the forest/trees thing because you can't handle losing, so you make something up. Do better.

 

Translation: You can't counter any of it, so you post that nonsense.

 

Says the guy who jumped into a conversation while contributing nothing to the topic just to take a shot at a poster who owns space in your head.

 

If you guys would take this over to the PM side, THEN it would be a conversation. Now, it's just a guy who has to be right at all costs in an open forum. That's more than just prickly and abrasive!

 

DRDC