Losing to inferior teams?

A fan wrote into Bob Labriola's "Asked and Answered" column with some stats on the Steelers losing to inferior teams. This was in response to Bob's observation that a team may have a poor record when the Steelers played them, but they go on to actually be quite good (Kansas City this year is a prime example).

Here is what the reader said:

"NATHAN SMITH FROM WASHINGTON, D.C.:
Following up on the conversation in the Dec. 29 Asked and Answered, I actually did take the time to look up Mike Tomlin's record vs. teams that ended the season with a winning and losing record, through his first eight full seasons as the Steelers’ coach. I also broke out his record against the very good (10-6 or better) and the very bad (6-10 or worse). For kicks, I also did this for Bill Cowher's first eight full seasons.

Using the wonderful Profootballreference.com, and not promising I didn't make at least a couple of small mistakes, this is what I found: Tomlin is 46-16 against teams ending the season with a losing record, and 34-10 against the really bad teams. He is 25-23 against teams ending the season with a winning record, and 19-21 against the really good teams.

Cowher was 43-18 against losing teams and 31-15 against the really bad teams (both slightly worse than Tomlin). Against winning teams, he was 22-24 and 15-17, both slightly worse than Tomlin.

And a couple of things those romanticizing the past may not remember: the very good 1997 Steelers team (11-5 AFC Central Division champions and the host of the AFC Championship Game) lost at home to a 6-10 Cowboys team – 37-7 in the home opener – and another game to a 6-9-1 Eagles team – 23-20. The following year, which was 1998, the Bengals won three games, and two of those were against the Steelers.

Take all of the above for what it's worth."

So maybe it is more perception than reality. Sure, they sometimes lose to inferior teams, but it is "any given Sunday", and apparently Tomlin is no worse than Cowher. I wonder how this stat is league-wide?

 

Wow, thanks for that. Adds a little more balance to the discussion.

 

not if we choose to ignore it
kidding
nice post STEEL ACORN
lets hope he gets another win against a losing team

 

Maybe there's revisionist history going on or, maybe, there's a bunch of youngsters here but, people are blaming Tomlin for the same things they blamed Cowher for. Blaming Haley for the same things Arians got heat for, griping at Butler's defense for the same things the dinosaur LeBeau got grief for.......................

 

the "losing to inferior teams" argument... has always been stupid to me. It just comes of as entitled and stupid, while being ignorant of the NFL as a whole

 

Out of curiosity, are you saying that every single team in the league is perfectly equal? I understand that it's a league of parody but that doesn't necessarily mean that there is no such thing as an inferior team necessarily.

 

I think a large majority of the league is relatively equal, yes. say 80%. With 2 or 3 really elite teams and 2 or 3 really awful teams at any given time. We see multiple "upset" losses every single week.

But ultimately my issue with the "we lose to bad teams narrative", is that it attempts to continually make it a HC thing. I don't like big picture narratives. I prefer wins and losses to be viewed on the field

Refer to the other thread regarding the Baltimore game. That loss will get wrapped up in the "Tomlin playing down to competition narrative", but that loss can be easily broken down in plays that don't support that narrative at all.

- 4th and 1 Foster steps on Wallace foot, tripping and thus unable to reach the A gap and pick up the LBer...otherwise play was blocked perfectly to pick up the first. The narrative becomes Tomlin's decision making, when it's just a bad luck play.


- we gave up 20 points, our secondary looked like its looked most of the year. Nothing unexpected. Sure we can criticize playing Blake, but ultimately the defense performed to their known ability


- The offense. Underperformed. Largely due to bad throws from Ben and a bad drop from Bryant in a critical moment.

I'm much more interested in those arguments, breakdowns, etc rather than trying to sweep everything under some large narrative so fans have a single place to place their frustrations

 

But but but

 

I say the rats loss was a total team effort from the coaching right on down to the playing. My main complaint with the coaching this year isn't the aggression but the OVER aggression and certain decisions coming at mind boggling moments. The Seattle game is a prime example of it. The Landry play will forever be one of the most boneheaded decisions I will ever see. Although I do think that play was "designed" brilliantly but just executed abysmally but also it shouldn't have been called WHEN it was called. Also in the rats game the two deep balls in a row were really stupid play calls too.

 

The Seattle game is a perfect example of a game I have no issue placing on coaching. Especially not going for the TD.

 

Situational football.....and we are terrible at it from the coach down to the QB. What separates the great teams from the mediocre is decision making,especially at critical times. Until we improve our situational IQ we should expect more of the same.

 

I agree. There is no such thing as an inferior team at the level of professional football. There are teams with good records and teams with worse records. On any given Sunday the team with a worse record can defeat a team with a better record. It's odd that people can watch the game for years and never learn.

 

So Ben and Landry throw 4 interceptions vs. the Seahawks and you place the blame on coaching.

But when someone else blames coaching in the second loss of the season to the Ravens (who are now missing 20 players to the IR) and Ben throws only 2 interceptions... then that person doesn't know what they are talking about.

You're about as consistent as Roethlisberger.

 

Like I said many times. Every game is worth breaking down. If you are interested in a Seattle breakdown PM.

 

I wonder who the Steelers are a parody of?

 

It's never just one thing or the other. Lots and lots of parts to a football team. The FO has ignored the secondary, Tomlin makes some terrible decisions, our HOF QB was completely confused Sunday, we were running all over them and suddenly abandoned the run, and so on and so forth. Still, Tomlin and Ben will always be 1A and 1B for getting blame, as they should be. Bad calls and bad decisions from both made for a brutal, likely season killing, loss. The team is getting what is deserves. It's true the Steelers could be anyone but they can also lose to anyone and it's freaking sad.

 

This isn't losing to a bad team.

This is losing a game that was a must win when 20 players on the other team are on IR.

The Ravens had a backup QB, RB and 1 WR of their original 6 plus injuries to the OL.

 

Agreed! It's about not being ready against the Rats and RYAN MALLETT on Sunday. Not being ready against the Rats in the playoffs last season. Not being ready against TIM TEBOW for crying out loud! It's about coming out flat, uninspired and unprepared for critical games the last few seasons. It's about not winning a playoff game in six seasons, the longest streak since Chuck Noll became HC in 1969, despite having one of the two Steelers all-time great quarterbacks! It's about terrible in-game decision making and clock management. It's about seemingly not having a clue about what his coordinators are doing on game day. It's about his apparent lack of input unless you count cheerleading, chest bumping and threatening to cut players eyelids off if they blink as input. It's about (IMHO) playing an inferior player who continues to get beaten week after week over a player for which we gave up a valuable draft choice and jeopardizing the team's chances of winning because, well, I'm not exactly sure why and neither are any of the rest of us. Those stats above are meaningless IMHO. There's much more that has caused me to have serious reservations about Tomlin's coaching abilities than his record against inferior teams.

 

It might just be Ben that is to blame instead of Tomlin. I think his style of play keeps games close. He not consistent like Brady or Manning in his prime.

Think about it ... in the Cowher era ... once your power running game is going its easier to smother opponents to the point they don't want to tackle anymore ... the game becomes not even close by the 4th quarter.

 

Disagree, when you are the Pittsburgh Steelers there are 31 inferior teams. Problem is, that 32nd team is often the toughest opponent.

 

Yep Ben's style and the Steelers style as well. We have switched to an Offense first Team and we lack the killer instinct or the ability to consistently wring up the score board...

On the other side of the ball we are still trying to play a style that is not really viable anymore . I have been back and forth with mant peeps on here about which is more important ? The rush or the coverage. The Steelers still look at this the wrong way and it must change ...

In a nut shell a Team with a bad front 7 can create a pass rush with schemes and stunts , but a Team with lesser talented DB'S can't scheme their way into coverage... Until the Team as a whole learns this basic principle this Team is all ,but doomed... This is exactly why they can and will get beat by scrub Teams...

 

How do you explain the fact that teams that have better DB's and secondaries then the Steelers getting torched? The reality is that the pass rush and secondary must play in sync to have consistent success. The biggest issue in the league today are the rules are slanted towards offensive success. Like all defenses today the Steelers defense will have up and down moments. I think some people need to pay attention to the trends that are happening league wide. The days of consistently dominating defenses are probably over.

The Steelers defense gave up an average of 20.5 ppg. The Bengals defense is first in the league at 17.5 ppg.

Teams that turn the ball over 2 times tend to lose those games more often then not regardless of the opposition faced. The Steelers loss to the Ravens simply because they didn't take care of the football.

 

I agree totally that we have a low football iq as a team. If anyone in the world can defend the clock "management" I would welcome their explanation.

 

Totally agree with all that is said above. And I would also like to add that the players need to earn there salaries and play the game that they are paid to play as professionals. Also I think the Rooney's should step in every now and then and let the team know who is paying them and that do expect a good return on there money. If they did that, I think it would filter down to the coaches very fast.