9-7

But it wasn't the defense that changed the situation. 2 weeks ago when everyone was saying that Pittsburgh would be a tough out, it was because of the offense. If they make it at 10-6 they would be just as dangerous and feared as they were 2 weeks ago.

 

Yep as does Ben for years now even when he's tossed like a rag doll repeatedly. Praises the line, blames himself. Matters none, but atleast we have that going for the locker room.

Between "the standard is the standard" and "I should've
Played better" banter, it'd be nice to hear some damn truth!

But then that'd just be a misfit locker room causing team cancer.

 

What's truly maddening to me is that MT doesn't learn, and obviously has no knack for making "gut calls". If the guy were high percentage at making risky-type calls (and 2 pt conversions don't count in my book) that resulted in games won rather than head scratching losses like this one - then I'd be more ok with it.

 

I think Tomlin is safe, but Ben's window for another SB may be closing... I hope Colbert is aggressive in the offseason.

 

It will be status quo here in the Steel City, just like always.
They will give you the same line of BS as usual. Tomlin will continue to lose
games for the Rooney's

 

How the **** do we turnover on downs with the best offense against ****ty defense. Sorry I'm still mad lol

 

Instead of looking at Tomlin, I would be looking at some of these position coaches. Lake could be a candidate to be dismissed even though he doesn't have a lot to work with. Joey Porter could be another because the OLBs are atrocious. Jones and Dupree and Moats and Chick haven't done much. He's not coaching Harrison. Harrison is a coach on the field. The scouting department who covers getting corners and OLBs should be seriously looked at.

 

To me that's a cop out. We've all seen Tomlin put X number of RBs in the doghouse for fumbles. Tomlin clearly blames players for turnovers.

The reality is that Ben throws 40 times a game and when you throw that much bad things are going to happen.

The Steelers play a style of football that will result in a lot of turnovers.

Who decides to play that style?

 

And furthermore...

Turnovers happen to all teams, regardless who's at the helm. BUT, when it keeps happening and no one learns from it? Or when we consistently keep making stupid tactical decisions and never learn from it? That's systemic. And that's a direct reflection of the field general himself.

MT needs to learn that a coach's job isn't to high-five and chest-bump his friends...er...players when they make a splash play, or brood with a deer-in-the-headlights stare when his idiotic "gut calls" go awry, or come up with cool cliché's on why his team didn't get the job done. A coach is a game manager. At this point, MT is no game manager IMO.

 

I think you're probably missing all the successful "gut calls"... what i mean is, it only registers with the fans as a "gut call" when it fails. Are we only talking about 4th down conversions? We are terrible this year, bottom of the league in conversion rate (but also near the bottom in attempts). But last year we were one of the better 4th down teams.

2 pt conversions don't count in your book? Can we do more to orchestrate a bias? How is a 2 pt NOT a gut decision (especially in the context of Tomlin's usage this year).

Or are we just over-reacting to 1 play in Baltimore? A play in which if Foster doesn't step on Wallace's foot, we get the first down (Oline had in blocked perfectly, Foster was pulling in to the A Gap to pick up the backer. Would've been a clean first down. So Tomlin's gut is bad... because Foster stepped on Wallace's foot...

Better to focus on the plays on the field than this type of "gut" nonsense.

 

actually... that's the cop out. The Steelers play an offense with strong ball control elements. Ben's interceptions are on Ben. In Baltimore, he could've taken 5+ yards to Heath, he CHOOSE to be more aggressive and force the ball into coverage. No excuses.

 

Kind of like Brett Favre, and he's going to the HOF.

 

Ben is going to the hall of fame too... and kind of like Favre there's a lack of playoff wins/super bowls in the 2nd half of his career (so far)

 

Bradshaw (HOF) threw a lot of stupid interceptions too. With all the talented receivers and TE that Fouts (HOF)had, you could always count on him to throw a bone-headed INT. Usually in the end zone. If you're going to thrill to a 7 to 84 bomb, you'll have to get over the stupid throws.

 

No excuses for stupid throws over the middle of the field when other options are open. NONE.

It's not the same as going deep in to single coverage and getting picked. It's not the same as a CB getting a good read and jumping a route. Those are things we should live with. Other teams have talented players, and make good plays. BUT throwing in to double coverage... is unacceptable. Not recognizing a LBers zone is unacceptable. Ben's first pick was totally unacceptable. It was a donkey pass.

 

Here's an example: I was watching the Broncos game with a guy who has been a Steelers fan for 40 years.

He loves Ben thinks he's the greatest. I think Ben is an upper tier QB who excels at making "splash plays." I think Ben's biggest weakness is the short passing game.

We had an argument late in the 4th. I said the Steelers need to run the clock out and he said the Steelers need to get first downs with Ben to end the game.

Ben throws on 2nd and 9 with 2:08 and it is picked off. Why would you run a play that could end up in 3 and 9 or worse with an opportunity for the Broncos to call a timeout before the 2 minute warning? Ben throws a pick on a stupid play call and it is 100% his fault? I don't think so.

Steelers would not have won in Denver if a Bronco had not walked on to the field early during the punt return TD. ST players don't know how to down a punt apparently. Tomlin is on record as saying he didn't say anything to Shamarko... wow.

Point is Steelers should have lost that game because of an inability to play fundamental and detail-oriented football.

Kind of hard to blame Ben when the Steelers encourage him to air it out and center the whole team around his passing game. Name some QBs who won with no running game and no defense.

 

I agree that those INTs were stupid but, how many times has he thrown a seemingly impossible pass into tight coverage for a big gain or a score. If you want a QB who only throws safe 5 yard routes, then Brady is who you should watch.
Yes, I know it works and Brady will be in the HOF too but, for me, his style of play is maddeningly vanilla.

 

Dan Fouts

 

I love Ben, but recognize his flaws/inconsistencies.

I have no problem putting the ball in Ben's hands with the intention of winning with a first down.

The pick? Totally inexcusable. Insanely idiotic decision.

As to the ST TD. Denver walking on the field would've been irrelevant as Shamarko's foot was out of bounds when he touched the ball. You don't come back from down 17 in the 2nd half without playing fundamental and detail oriented football.

 

Shamarko ran down the middle of the field! He touched the ball with one hand and THEN staggered out of bounds. It was a live ball. The play was called back due to an illegal substitution or it would have been the game.

What are you talking about?

Tomlin has created a one dimensional team where the only way to win is on Ben's arm. The end.

You can blame Ben until you are blue in the face but Tomlin wants his inconsistent QB to be the deciding factor in every game.

 

you should go back and watch the play again.
Yes, it was called back due to an illegal substitution.
BUT, if it wasn't flagged, it would have been reviewed (all scoring plays are reviewed). And you can clearly see Shamarkos hand on the ball with his foot out of bounds, making it a downed ball.

I don't agree. We have flaws. We are not one dimensional. We may win 10 games this year, and we were missing Ben for 4+ of them AND overall, he hasnt played up to par this year (terrible TD/INT ratio). We've also lost 2/5 of our starting oline, the best RB in the NFL, and some WRs along the way....

I place blame where it belongs situationally. As this discussion began with Ben's INT over the middle. Yes, I will continue to place blame for dumb throws on the QB. You can continue to turn that into some larger, nonsensical approach to placing all blame for everything in one place.

 

Umm if Shamarko had downed the ball why didn't the refs blow the play dead????

They didn't. The punt was returned for a TD. Illegal substituion saved it. Or are you relying on a favorable review from NY????? Ahahaha wow. Just wow.

Ben threw 55 times vs the Broncos. 55!

You are surprised when a gunslinger QB throws 2 picks in 55 tries?

The point is: you run the ball to close games. The decision to throw with 8 seconds left means that there was a good chance that two Steelers plays would have taken 8 seconds off the clock. 4 seconds per play when you're trying to kill the clock.

Give me your address. I'll explain all this Fischer Price style in a little book with pictures and everything and mail it to you.

 

come on man, sometimes the refs don't see things. you've never seen a play overturned on replay due to a toe being out of bounds???

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-broncos-punt-return-td-nullified-by-penalty/

is that anecdote supposed to prove something

I place blame when franchise QBs throw bad INTs. You see the TYPE of INT matters in discussing who is at fault for the INT, just like the plays on the field matter when discussing who is at fault for a Loss.

Wrong. Young close out games by getting first downs.

I doubt you could explain anything about this game.

 

RPO, like you, I recognize that this is a flawed Steelers team. I don't think Tomlin is a perfect coach, but I do believe is a really good coach (and will get even better, over time). However, I recognize that the failures that plague this team spread across coaches and players.

Also, since I'm not here as often as I'd like: Welcome to the board!

Regarding the rest of the discussion... I'm not going into posting a bunch of quotes and replies. I simply believe that Ben makes costly mistakes on the field that are laid at the feet of both Tomlin and Haley. I often see several options for Ben that he refuses to take. Instead, he takes a low percentage read and makes a bad throw. The announcers have replayed this many times. Hell, Tunch Ilkin has covered several of these instances on Steelers.com's Chalk Talk over the years.

If Ben is given a pass play in a difficult situation, then he can check into a run if he has the available personnel on the field. If not, then he has the option to make a throw with a high percentage chance for a completion. Otherwise, he can legally ground the ball, or throw it out of bounds.

I'm certain many of you will come to Ben's defense. So, I'll just say in advance: I agree to disagree.

The entire team needs work. But the men on the field also shoulder some blame when Tomlin has put them into the position to make a play and they fail to do so. Obviously.