We're forgetting something about Vick

I agree. I call it selective moral outrage but it's the same thing. There are just some things that are like "dealbreakers" for some ya know?

 

spoken like a true fan...

 

Oh yeah, and BFT... I forgot to address yer point about Adrian Peterson...

I`ve said it before, and I stand by it...

At least he is tryin` to teach his kid right from wrong...
And I don`t think the "pick your switch" method is too harsh...


It`s better than letting the kid do anything they want, and trying to put them in "time out",
when they do wrong....
And they don`t learn anything from it!!
Except for, they can do what they want without real consequences!!!

 

I often wonder what makes someone so callous as to be able to do the things that Vick was doing. I do know that East Newport News is called Bad Newz for a reason and it's kinda VA's version of E St. Louis... not making excuses, just wondering if that played any role since I did not come from that type of environment. I just don't get the appeal of animals fighting and that stuff still happens in VA. When I was in Hawaii I heard about the cockfigting tradition there in rural areas that still goes on and I didn't understand that either.

 

I believe in whipping to and I've had to pick a few switches in my day. It's just some people think that whipping is really bad these days and that's why I ask that.

 

Chicken fighting is pretty big down here too. I went to a few in high school. It's mostly just rednecks hollering at chickens and betting on them. My buddy's dad done it and spent TONS on that habit. I didn't know they did that in Hawaii.

 

There`s a difference between discipline and abuse...

Shh.. That line has been blurred...

Can`t touch a kid now, even if they smart off to ya...

But mine won`t... they know better.. LOL!!!...

Actually, I haven`t had to whip either of the last two boys I`ve raised...

The threat was enough, and when it wasn`t, I just took away their phones/ video game systems...

Works way better than the "time outs"... LOL!!!

 

Dude taking the games is what's abuse!!! LOL!!! If I got my games taken away I would just lose all my will to live. I can say for my little Ben he REALLY doesn't wanna get a whipping. The other thing I do is take away tv and that also really hits the spot. It just depends on the severity of what he does really.

 

It's all in what environment you're raised in. From all reports his father was into it as well. It's the same with all over the world. Look at ISIS! How can they do the things they do? Because of indoctrination.

He grew up in an area where the people he was with didn't value a dogs life if it wasn't making money for them in fights or producing good fighting puppies. Of course they all knew it was against the law and kept it hidden.

He's not the first and sadly probably won't be the last. He's just one who had the financial resources to bankroll a larger operation.

You can overcome this and make those judgments on your own though which he should have. It's that old adage that you're in too deep to back out now though.

Now can we get back on topic? There's some interesting things in the upcoming game plan to be discussed.

 

I am guessing of the Ernie Holmes incident of shooting at a police helicopter and hitting an officer in the ankle happened today there would be a big moral outcry (and he would be in jail) but we weren't really privy to that stuff back in the day.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2013/06/misbehavior-relative-world-of-professional-sports-part-ii/

 

No he had a mental illness. Most likely that gets him a pass and the outrage would be against those who didn't treat him......

 

Victory has a thousand fathers but defeat is an orphan. LOL.

 

Well, Against the Rams, we did much better when we lined up in a spread formation, with no one in the back field, to negate their strong front four D-linemen, and give Ben a chance to read the coverage... sometimes sending a man in motion, to see how they would react, and give Ben a chance to change the play...

Can that work with Vick?

Even before Ben was hurt, when we tried to run up the middle, it rarely worked... Their interior D-line was just really good...

We broke maybe 2 runs from Bell, for more than 5 yards against them, from a traditional "under center", hand the ball off, and hit the gaps, type runs...

Can Vick read the coverages, against the Ravens, if we try that same principle?

Or is their Defense that much different from the Rams, that we would try a different strategy, anyhow?

I think if we try to rely on "screens", they will blow them up...

How can we get Bell/Williams running the ball, to set up play action passes?...


Do we really think Vick can just sit in the pocket, and hit the slants/crossing routes, like Ben could? I doubt it...

How can we make the dog killer an effective qb?...

I`m thinking the "zone/ read" college type game, would suit him well, but, that`s a complete overhaul, of what we have been doing since day1 of training camp...

Is it worth trying to change?

And actually, it would have suited him better 10 years ago... Scrap that idea...

Gonna just have to hope our line can block well, and stick to what we`ve been doing...

Mix up the plays... Get rid of those "Bubble Screens"/ "Quick Passes to the outside reciever".

Who am I kidding? We`re screwed...

All we have is a bunch of weapons, with no one to get them the ball...

Turn the line loose, with a heavy runinng game,

Let Bell, and Williams take turns pounding the ball,

And roll Vick out of the pocket, throwing from the edges, and, just maybe, we can put the Cravens at 0-4!...

At least we are at home...

 

So real that means they get rid of some of the quick stuff and trim it down as they'll probably try to shoehorn Vick into running those plays as a right handed QB! That's a recipe for disaster!

Either that or they flip those plays and you see mistakes by the receivers and Vick as that's not what he's been studying.

Probably they'll take his best stuff from practice and just use variations and a heavy dose of Bell and Williams for the Baltimore game as they really don't have time for anything else.

They used him as the scout QB as Kap preparing for the 49ers, so maybe they use what he was running there?

 

I'll pretend you didn't say that!

 

Just going back to the OP...

I have less concerns about VIck being injured than I do his basic ability. We can see what he does with some prep this week, but I'll stick to what I said when we signed him - there are better options out there, and in 2 or 3 games we'll be looking around for them.

 

now wait just a minute he had his trial,,,,guilty,,,, and he served his time,,,, so none of us were judge and jury,,the problem here is first he was reinstated in the NFL by our BELOVED COMMISH ROGER GOODELL,,,JUDGE AND JURY ,,,,,,,,,when he should never been allowed back ,,,,,,,,,,,second he was
he was signed to a 1yr deal by the STEELERS,,,,,, they were judge and jury there,a very foolish move on their part total disregard for the fans,,,,,now we the fans are the disgruntled public unhappy with the actions of the NFL and our own team voicing our opinions,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


all the judging has been done by others we are just not happy with the results

 

Exactly how I feel.

 

Look I detest Vick as much as anyone for the acts he fronted and participated in. At least he got caught and did time.

He is the QB going forward. I just hope that Ben can come back in 4 weeks against the Chiefs. If he is out 6 weeks I am hoping at least they win 3 games.

Vick has never been a great QB. Haley will have to game plan for any strengths he has left. He is not the runner he wants was, he also is a pick machine and is an injury waiting to happen.

A large dose of Bell is in the future.

They need to sign another QB.

 

Fair enough. From what I saw of Vick with the Jets last season he still has a strong arm and he runs very well for his age. The biggest thing I have seen when he is in the pocket is that he doesn't feel the rush and gets clobbered from behind. He doesn't try to read defenses really and throws to a predetermined target and if that's covered, takes off and runs ...I am guessing a lot of quick hitches and screens as well as roll-outs are going to be in the gameplan.

 

Well, I can speak to Newport News having grown up across the water from it and being back in the general area about 8 years now. A lot of it is pretty bad, but I wouldn't blame Vick's choices on where he lived. Dog fighting happens everywhere and it isn't a Virginia problem, and working rescue for many years I took in dogs from half the east coast and midwest states who had been brutalized from it. I think it's pretty safe to blame the environment to some extent. Those of us who followed him from high school to VT, watched his brother get in all kinds of trouble, were aware of the family dynamics, and saw the local results of these acts knew all too well that this wasn't a recent thing for Vick. There's a long history of problems there and we can blame them to some extent, but at the end of the day he made the choice to do what he did to the dogs. I, personally, can not and will not ever forgive him. We talk about remorse. He has shown none except for getting caught.

I was deeply disappointed in the Steelers for picking him up for ethical reasons, but I am equally as annoyed that we are wasting money on a QB who hasn't produced in years and looks like a hot mess out there. We've needed to address the backup QB situation for some time now and filling slots with washed up oldies and young kids who just aren't that good. I get that a backup is a backup, but I really wish we could do better than we have in recent years. I'm not sure how that happens given the pool, but I just can't believe we've pursued all avenues and Vick and Jones are the best we could do.

 

As a dog lover I despise Vick as a human being like others have stated. Regardless, as a Steelers fan i'll keep my criticism of Vick to the subject sport.

What doesn't make sense to me is to have a back up QB that is so different in style from your starting QB that if something like this happens you don't have to try and recreate your offense. Asking all the other players to try and change the way they run routes, block, etc. to try and make a poor player perform is asking for trouble long term.

So now for 4-6 weeks we have to run a whole new offense to try and suit Vick then try and switch back once Ben returns? We need a fairly accurate pocket passer who can get rid of the ball quickly without tossing the ball to the other team. We don't have that in Vick and thus will play out over the course of the next few games.

Vick will ultimately make a couple sweet bomb passes as his arm is still strong, but when we need to convert those 3rd and 6+ yards we are going to be in trouble. If we can win just two games with him then it will be a positive, but we'll see if we can even do that. I for one am worried.

 

I think I threw up in my mouth a little.

 

I think what people are really forgetting about is just how TURNOVER prone Mike Vick is. The guy loves to fumble. Career wise he's fumbled 40X compared to Ben's 25. Then think about the fact that Ben has played in 162 games vs Vick's 140. Vick's INT % is also higher than Ben's with almost half of the attempted passes. Turnovers will kill us. We are not capable of over coming turnovers with Mike Vick as our QB.

I personally would rather see Landry Jones get a shot at QB before Vick.

 

I wouldn't call my self a dog lover. I like dogs. I've owned a few in my life time and loved them as pets, but I'm not an animal freak. I think people get way over the top with their pets but so what, it's not harming anyone and to each their own. Many so called dog lovers have no problem killing other animals with their dogs while hunting or what ever. But that's ok? kinda strange. Humans all over the globe (American's alike) treat other animals about as poorly as Mike Vick treated dogs. I only point out the hypocrisy because of the protesting you see over Vick. That said I do think what he did was sick and disturbing. Anyone who kills an animal for fun is a sick Sob and I probably don't want to associate my self with them. I think everyone would agree. But so so many people are guilty of doing exactly that - killing animals for fun. I'm guilty of it my self. I bet I've killed more chipmunks and fish than Vick has killed dogs - 10 fold. I don't want him on our team but it's not my decision. I'm cheering for the steelers - not vick. I'd also tell Mr Rooney if given the chance that it was a bad signing. In my own mind I thought the steelers were a little more conscious of these things but it's clear we are not any better than any other team when it comes to expectations from our players, coaches, and fans. I saddened me a little to tell my two son's that we signed Mike Vick.

I also want to point out that I have no ill will towards Vick. If he learned from his mistakes then good for him. I hope he's a happy person and he should be given the chance to earn a living. He should just do it with teams like the Raiders, Ravens, and Patriots.