Have the Steelers become a team of marginal players?

I don't think it is our Players per say....IMO we have some stars on the DL and in the LB spots ,we have some guys who can lay the wood from the DB spots.....The problem IMO is turning into the powder puff league we have invested in aggressive Football players and the rules have changed to make them less productive than they other wise would be.....

IMO a scheme change is needed , a philosiphy change is needed . I stated a few years ago that we needed to start drafting 4-3 types and Man coverage types...The rules don't fit the zone blitz they probably get called for a 2 hand touch on the QB...

The rules don't fit the let them catch the ball in front of you and then make them pay....The DB'S will probably get Arrested for Attempted murder if you actually dislodge a Football...

Rules are looking to head the way of don't Hit high or don't Hit low in open space,,,,,the only way to combat that is keep them out of the open by playing Seattle type coverage which means we need to draft 2 or 3 CB'S a season for the next 3 or 4 years..lol

 

too many role players and not enough play makers. that's what I see. it doesn't mean they aren't good football players just not many splash plays to turn games around with. no turn overs for us but allow big plays from them.

 

I really think we have as many playmakers as anyone. I may be wrong but I think Antonio, bell, ben, and heath are as good as any four at their positions in the league. maybe behind Denver but I think above a lot of teams. it would be an interesting debate. find a qb, rb, te and wr as good on one team. I know bell is alittle unproven but I think we can all agree what we seen last season was impressive behind the line he had.

as far defense I think we are getting younger and getting some playmakers in here. heyward, Mitchell, Thomas, jones, and worilds are all young and on the come as tomlin would say. Timmons is one of the best. bottom line. troy is troy so I think we can match talent it is just getting them all on the field at once. anyway, just my opinion

 

Obviously that isn't the case, but I'm not a fan of the other 31 teams, so as far as I'm concerned, I wish they could all hire Kevin Colbert to mangle their caps.

Besides, it's not just restructuring Ben, and it's not just once. It's player after player after player, over and over and over, year after year after year. We're well beyond the point where we have trouble holding our roster together without further restructurings, let alone trying to add talent.

 

Sign Chris Johnson then!
Wait. He's still good.

 

Don't worry about disagreeing with me. My opinion is usually in the minority. I have a decidedly glass half empty and leaking point of view.

Why do I see the team still declining? Our OTs are a mess. We have no 2nd starting quality WR. Our DL is a mess and needs upgrading at at least one position, and IMO two. We have no answer at ILB next to Timmons. Our top CB is turning 34 years old and coming off his worst season. For the most part our drafts have been weak in recent years, and some of the picks that could play have left town. Our top pick last season showed almost nothing despite getting extensive playing time. Our big free agent signing is a one year wonder that we didn't think was worth ($1,000,000) just last offseason.

We were 8-8 again, we haven't upgraded our talent, and we're capped out ... again. I see no reason for optimism.

 

Well, we do play in the AFC North, so there's that!

 

The borrowing of cap dollars from future year's isn't really that bad an idea. I've kind of grown to understand the logic behind it. A dollar of salary cap in 2016 is actually smaller than a dollar of cap money in 2014 (by percentage).

With projections of the cap now back into the 7-8% growth per year, it's certainly a sound policy to do some restructures and credit card spending to get the most bang for your buck.

What caught the Steelers off guard and ill prepared was the way the cap evolved from 2009 to 2012. Not only did we completely fail to take advantage of any of the benefits an "uncapped" year provided us in 2010 (and I understand the owners had a wink, wink collusion thing going to keep contract structures and policies status quo), but we also were terrible at managing our roster during the "flat" salary cap of 2011 and 2012 (both years with actually less money to work with than in 2009).

In all honesty, unless we were prepared to take advantage more of the 2010 non-capped year (for example, why did Larry Foote get a signing bonus?), then we were screwed.

There was no way the decisions and policies of 2009 were designed to have a "flat cap" for 4 consecutive seasons. We had too many veterans. Too many third contracts and too much projected dead money to deal with that.

Combine that with some downright terrible contracts on the O-line (Starks, Kemo, Colon), all of whom failed to make it more than 2 years into their deals and you had the foundation laid for all the problems we've seen since (and the resultant .500 records).

I'm not giving Colbert a pass. He should have been more plugged in to the changes the CBA was bringing. He should have more aggressively "fixed the books" in 2010 in preparation of a flat salary cap for the next 24 months. That's kind of his job.

Unfortunately, in my opinion, Colbert is underqualified with that type of long term thinking and maybe it was more a failure of the Rooney's by not helping him out.

Colbert has always been a glorified scout, first and foremost. For those that think a scout's background and work experience make him qualified to be a good G.M, Colbert's your man. I do not. And while I have nothing against Colbert as a person or worker, I do have a problem with his education and work experience as it relates to a new era of "general managers" and how they have to control resources and do high level risk/reward analysis of decisions. Being a modern G.M. and building a roster is not about "this player is better than that player" but more an analysis of his position, playing time, talent, cost and comparisons available via other methods.

As baseball and basketball are heading in the direction of high level math and business analysis in trying to understand the true contributions and value of players, so will the NFL.

Kevin Colbert doesn't have the qualities to lead the Steelers on the forefront of that revolution. The sooner the Rooney's realize that the better off this franchise will be.

 

I don't agree we should have expected or accepted a "downturn".

You quickly mention the 3 season we exceeded expectations since 2005 (all three Super Bowl seasons). But you can argue 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2012 and 2013 all underachieved.

The same situation is happening in New York with the Giants and their fan base. How much do two or three really great playoff runs make up for seasons of missing playoffs and underachieving and not even giving yourself a CHANCE in the playoffs?

Since 2006, this franchise has underachieved more than overachieved on a season by season basis. You can look at the highs and say that makes up for everything, but not all fans feel that way. I would have liked to seen a little bit more consistency. I would have liked to not have to explain to other fans why we are so hot/cold. I hate defending bad losses in the playoffs to Del Rio/Gerrard and Fox/Tebow. I even hate talking about the Seattle super bowl and how we stunk up the joint the following season and started 2-6.

Those types of inconsistencies is not a sign of a "great" franchise or a front office that is doing it's job year to year.

 

name a franchise that is great year in and year out. and if you don't like talking about the bad playoff loses talk about the three road wins on the way to the super bowl. I think we were underdogs in all of them

 

Common theme for teams that win the Super Bowl? Since when?

17 past Super Bowl champions at least got to the final 4 the following season vs. 13 missing the playoffs (included in that are some pretty major changes like Lombardi leaving Green Bay and Elway retiring in Denver).

So why do you accept underachievement and don't understand why some fans expect continued success?

They underachieved in 2006 (missed playoffs), 2007 (10 wins with easy schedule, lose at home in the playoffs to David Gerrard), 2009 (missed playoffs), 2012 (missed playoffs) and 2013 (missed playoffs).

The only season worth debate on that issue is 2011 when we won 12 games but lost in our first playoff game as SEVEN point favorites in one of the most embarrassing losses in our franchise's history.

I really don't think over and under achieving criteria is open to debate and I have some statistical analysis using a variety of methods to back that up (but that would take another post or two).

 

and a lot of "rosies".... rose color glasses fans that never question anything.. and if you dont question 8-8 seasons you are forced to repeat them... .... oh... we already repeated it .. but to some people 8-8 isnt marginal i guess ... i guess some are happy with 8-8...and if you question it then you are not a loyal fan...

HINES

 

'

i think i said it was a great signing.. i still think signing blount was a great signing.. not that he is GREAT . but it was a great signing.. it got us what we wanted and kept him from signing with the pats and even more with the ravens .. in that regard it was a great signing.. imo

HINES

 

actually you said it improved us and that's what I aint sure about. yeah it was a good signing because we needed a back. what I was questioning is how you could say that the blount signing improved us and Mitchell was a maybe. I think Mitchell is a good young safety who can improve us right away.

 

and i would love you to prove me wrong and mitchell is as good a signing as blount if not better.. i'd love it .. dont see it but love to be wrong.... cragratulations bucs 12-2 over the cards GO BUCS ...ooops sorry

HINES

 

How many draft "hits" do you expect in any normal draft? I'd be surprised if the average good draft class over any extended period of time exceeded 2-maybe 3 per class. You aren't gonna have a draft class of 7 turn into pro bowlers or 10 year starters.

 

Appears that Colbert was qualified enough. The glorified scout helped this team have a lot of success. Colbert is a modern GM that helped to build several competitive teams. His methods work. At the end of the day there is more than one way to build a success team/franchise. It's not simply believing that one way is better than another way.

 

That isn't entirely true. Granted, the players are all gone.

However, in 09 in the 3rd rd alone Urbik, Wallace, and Lewis were taken. Pretty decent players just not Steelers. But this year the team gets a 3rd and 5th comp pick for mw and kl. who knows maybe that will net a couple HOF'ers.

Someone pointed out that Pit replaced its 1st two draft picks in 2009 Hood 1 and Urbik 3 with the Raiders DHB 1 and Mike Mitchell 2. Sort of funny or ironic huh? Maybe that draft will turn out to be something after all.

Basically, I agree with HawkeyeJames and benwallace17 that the restocking program is going along pretty good.