What IS and what IS NOT?

I would like to make a thread here to centralize everyone's opinion so we could have an actual discussion about this. In threads spread around about the board you will see things like "this is on the coaches" or "this is on the players". So I would like to make a thread where everyone could clearly state their opinion of what IS the coaches and players fault and what is NOT the coaches or players fault. So I will start.

What IS Haley's fault: I believe this team doesn't have the personnel to run the system they would like to. When you look at Haley's system it is based on quick throws coming off the line. Well in order for that to work you have to have some either some physical guys or some really fast ones that can just blow by people. I think AB is fast but I DON'T think he can outphysical a guy. So IF he gets jammed at the line that breaks down the whole thing. I believe if we had a physical guy like Boldin this would be a really good system. But as it stands right now the only physical guy we have is Heath. So I think it is on the staff for installing this system and trying to make it work without the proper skill sets. I also think it is on the staff that we don't use enough no-huddle. That's the only time we've had any real success moving the ball but Haley insists on sending in substitutes and killing momentum and allowing the d to get settled again.

What is NOT Haley or Tomlin's fault: It is NOT Haley or Tomlin's fault when balls hit receivers right in the hands and they drop them.

What IS DL's fault: I think it's his fault that we don't press enough and play physical enough. I also think it's his fault for allowing our D to become so predictable.

What IS Tomlin's fault: I think the undisciplined nature and seemingly unprepared nature each week fall squarely on Tomlin. I also blame Tomlin for some of the personnel or lack thereof on the field. Why does Tomlin admittedly dress Whimper when he's not prepared to play but then puts Moye in sweats when he has a td in the red zone which we desperately need. Also the absolute lack of situational awareness falls squarely on him as well. They say Belichik absolutely PREACHES and PRACTICES certain scenarios to prepare his team for them. We are horrible at that. Tomlin needs to tell Haley to quit subbing in the middle of the no huddle late in games because that falls in to this category. Also the clock mgmt is and ALWAYS HAS BEEN HORRRRRIBLE under Tomlin. He seriously needs to step it up in this aspect.

What IS Ben's fault: Ben needs to get better at taking what the defense gives him. With this line it's better to just live to play another down. Our guys can't hold blocks and it's just too risky for Ben to trust in them to hold the line for him to make the big play on a consistent basis. Ben also REALLY needs to work on his ball security. He needs to quit holding it out like candy to a baby when he's being bum rushed. I also think Ben needs to become more studious at recognizing coverages and finding the hot read. Also I would like to see him stare guys down a little less.

So that's my opinion. What's your guys?

 

I think 80% of this mess falls on the players. they are pros. you have to start playing with pride. hustle, focus, execution, this is all on the players. I see a lack of all three. this defense seems to think they are intitled to playing time. the coaches can only do so much. is it really up to tomlin to make grown men play with discipline? I know the coaches roll is important, obviously. the call the plays, create the gameplan, and set the tone for the week but they don't block, throw, catch, or tackle. this team seems like they think they can show up and win. there is no fire. I played a lot of football and I can tell you that a coach can get you fired up. he can make you feel like you can run thru a wall. he can give a speech that makes you think you are invincible but when you get hit the fist time or when one thing don't go your way. its all gone. you start thinking to much, you start doubting. so I don't put a lot of this on the coaches. I don't know if haleys system will work or not. I don't feel like I have seen it. I want to see this offense execute a game plan. I don't care if bill walsh is calling plays, with this group I feel the results will be the same. until they get on the same page it wont happen. I think selfishness is to blame for a lot of this. contracts and playing time seem to be an issue with this group. it just my opinion. great thread by the way

 

Well surely it's a coaching problem when a guy like Adams doesn't even get out of his STANCE by the time Jared Allen is around him! I mean that is absolutely ridiculous! But let's say that none of these guys shape up and they don't get shipped out. Do you then put it on the coaches? What will be your breaking point? Also just out of curiosity what holes do you find in my reasoning outlined in my post?

 

I really find no holes in your reasoning. you may be right about haleys system and I do agree with you tomlin doesn't always seem like he knows what he is doing but I have to believe that he does or he wouldn't be where he is. to many nfl people say he is a good coach. if we let him go he is out of work for 2 min. I still think this team is talented and can win. I want them to play as a team. I don't think they are a tight knit unit. maybe that falls on the coaches. I know a couple of former players and they tell me that players create the environment. everyone is down on the players we have. if you look at our first and second round picks that are underperforming its not like these guys were reaches. decastro was a stud coming out. everyone thought he was the steal of the draft. same with mendy. adams would have been a first round pick if he didn't have the drug trouble. I personally would never draft a lineman for the big ten but that's a different conversation. I think the coaching staff and front office has tried to solve the problem but these players seem to me to have no pride. if they don't get it together I would say this team will look more different next year as it did this year. if not then I put it on the front office and coaches.

 

Do you think the Rooney's should instruct Tomlin and Colbert to ONLY take linemen in free agency? I really think that would be the best way for us to fix the line because it seems we absolutely can not evaluate linemen and bring them along at a good pace. But if we could find proven commodities and use our cap space for them it seems to me like we could fix the line sooner rather than later.

 

What IS Haley's fault:

Making us #32 in the league in running the play action on just 12.4% of snaps.

Who's #1 and #3? Only the 4-0 Pats and Seahawks.

What IS Haley's fault: That DAMN shotgun draw which we have an 0/4 success rate this season

 

Yeah and he only seems to call that draw when it's like 3rd and 89!

 

To be fair everyone calls that draw on third and impossible. Punting is not always the worst thing that can happen.

 

Can't argue you points but I will add that I don't believe we have seen Haley's plan for the offense as of yet because of our O-Line as well as personnel either undeveloped or not yet part of the team

Defensively I blame DL for not making necessary changes (there's no reason to allow a team to drive down the field on their first series of downs continuously) especially when you were 0-3. Get aggressive and become the hunter for an opening series, STOP giving cushion especially to 2nd string QB's.
Tomlins Mia management of clock is spot on but how many games has it cost us? What bothers me about MT is his sometimes lack of feel for the game. This dates back to the Superbowl when we had Green Bay's defense on the ropes, driving the ball with an upcoming 3rd and short. Instead of being prepared to drive for the 1st down we called a timeout, the defense rested and Matthews analyzed internally what we like to do and forced a fumble on Mendy. We still don't pick up the pace when we need to consistently in my opinion. And we still sometimes looked confused on 3rd and short.

One thing I would like to point out which no one has mentioned as part of the reason for our decline is the loss of our leaders namely Farrior on Defense and Ward on Offense. The respect that these two men commanded was far superior to what we have now and I'm not sure who will pick up the baton. On offense our leader in Pouncey is gone for the year and I never considered Keisel, Polamalu, Taylor, or Clark those type of guys. Good soldiers yes but generals NO.

Lastly can someone tell if if they ever see been recognize and point out to his linemen prior to the snap what he's seeing ala Peyton, Brady , Rivers? It would just seem to help your linemen focus if you walked up to them and patted them on the butt or pointed which direction you see pressure coming from. Just a thought.

 

Haley's fault- His game plan does not fit our personnel

Ben's fault- Trying to make too much happen and turning over the ball

Tomlin's fault- This team is undeciplined and has been for years, poor clock management, poor decision making, not having backups be prepared to play in a game

DL's fault- The D is too predictable. Period.

It is NONE of the above's fault that running backs fumble and WR's drop balls. It is not most of the above's fault (maybe Tomlin's) that our OL is horrible.

 

I have a question. do you really think its tomlins fault that this team is undisciplined? I mean their not high schoolers. they know how to play at a high level. you cant make a player focus. sure you can bench him and try to get his attention. I believe he tried that with gilbert. I remember chris carter saying last year when the saints didn't have peyton. the head coach cant make you play hard or make you a better player. he can put you in better situations but you are what you are. I think that is true. we have players who are just collecting pay checks. I don't think they really care about the franchise right now. if they did they would play with pride. that is not happening right now

 

Yes I do think an undisciplined team is the head coaches fault, Tomlin stands on the sideline aloof from everything going on around him looking more like a fan instead of the head coach, the head coach sets the standard for discipline and players will adapt to what they can get away with, no organization in practice, means no organization on game day......

 

maybe your right. all I know is Ditka, parcells, and coaches like that had some undisciplined teams. I mean his first couple of years the only knock on tomlin was is clock management. everyone said he had leaders on those teams. I don't think he has changed a whole lot.

 

Your right, he has not changed and that is one of the problems with this team. Look at the patriots, as bad as i hate to give them credit for anything, they are finding ways to win with what they have whereas we just continue to do the exact same things game after game, year after year; that is the very definition of insanity.

Now, back to WHAT IS and WHAT IS NOT; I believe IT IS the organizations fault that our team looks physically weaker than other teams. Look at the teams that play the style that we used to, the niners and seahawks play smash mouth football with dominant lines on both sides of the ball and their players just look bigger, stronger, and in better shape than ours and I believe that goes all the way to the top with the tone that it is set for the team. I believe IT IS the fault of the GM and scouts that they have made some really quesitonable draft picks (hood and heyward should never have been first rounders, jones should never have been drafted with eifert on the board and heath banged up, and landry jones should never have been drafted period) as well as the fact they let keenan lewis go and kept ike, troy and clark who are all passed their prime. IT IS the HC and OC's fault that they do not find a way to tailor the offense to the strength of the players they have and IT IS DL's fault that this defense has become so predictable. IT IS the coaches fault that they cannot see our defensive personnel are better suited for a 4-3. IT IS Bens' fault for not putting in the film study that top tier qb's put in (either that or he is just not very smart) and it is also his fault that at least two of those picks he has thrown this year were way behind his receivers and it is the receivers fault when they drop a pass they got their hands on or fumble.

There is plenty of blame to go around from top to bottom, this team looked bad at the end of last year and all through the preseason, then we come out in the first game and look decent until the fumble into in the end zone and then it all fell apart. That is why I think it is time to blow this thing up. I don't think Ben should included in the purge, starting qb's are too hard to come by but other than a few bright spots there is not a whole lot on this team that we would really miss.

 

I'd just like to give a special "shout-out" to "Gomer Fife" (Special Teams Coach Smith) for not even getting mentioned in this thread until now.

 

or kevin Colbert, who engineered this mess of players.

 

The reason Haleys system doesn't work is two fold, the first has to do with players, specifically the RB and TE, untl the last 2 weeks we didn't have a real TE and the RB was stuck trying to keep the QB from getting killed as soon as the ball was snapped. The other part is press coverage, teams aren't having to try to hard to get to the QB, they press coverage and keep all the LBers in coverage to take away the short middle, it works as most times it only takes 4 rushing to get to Ben, so nobody is close to open and nobody can break off or change the route as there isn't enough time because of the pressure, the safety valve is the RB who ends up trying to save the QB instead of moving to the flat for the check down. The key to beating the dink and dunk is press coverage, in order to do it you have to be able to either get to the QB in a hurry and have CBs that can cover, or have CBs that can cover for a long time, but the reason we get beat is the fact teams can leave their line backers in coverage to take away the short middle because 4 guys will get through our oline with little problem so there isn't anyone open and nowhere to go with the ball. Mike Wallace was able to keep the dogs off as the safeties played deep so the Lbers had to play back off the ball, it left a lot of underneath stuff open but now the teams are just unloading. I think if you can fix the oline a lot of the poor play we are watching will get a lot better but it will take some doing to fix the line problem.

 

It's the Rooney's. They're stuck in their old ways and they won't get us any damn cheerleaders. It's obvious we can't watch this train wreck on the field so we need to see about 42 hotties on the sideline to give us something to cheer about.

In all seriousness though, there is plenty of blame to go around. Too much to actually list really.

 

I think to run Haley's offense we need better all around TE's behind Heath....

Heath is only slowly coming back now...

 

Colbert would give us 3-4 hotties and fill the others with skanks, fugglies and 2 baggers.

 

What IS certain is that this would actually happen.

What IS NOT certain is whether this board would still hold Mike Tomlin responsible.

 

Mac, are you so sure it is just Kevin Colbert? C'mon lets be realistic here. I think at the end of the season it will come down just as it did with Cowher and Donahoe. Like I said in another thread I would like to see a CLEAN SWEEP.
Will it happen? Probably not.