Proposed Rule Changes

I don't see anything here about your claims re: CTE.

 

Hell No. That was a great movie.

 

The Browns shouldn’t even be allowed at the table.

 

It’s like the little kids table at thanksgiving

 

What claim do you have? I was saying it is the older players who are more likely to get concussions and CTE, not the younger players which in case you haven't noticed make the vast majority of return men.

 

CTE isn't a product of concussion. It's repetitive hits to the head. Hard hits to the head can cause concussions. ALL hits to the head over time can result in CTE. It's a prolonged exposure risk. When kids start playing and taking those hits, that's when the clock starts. And as we know from all types of injury cases and disease cases, it does fall into a per individual/case by case realm.

 

The stuff (I'm sure there are several more papers) in my previous suggests that what you think you know about CTE seems to be completely incorrect.

CTE isn't something that only happens in the NFL. The data below suggests that playing in college provides a much greater increase in risk over playing in HS than playing in the NFL does over playing in college.

It also suggests that almost every NFL player has CTE (since almost every player they looked at had CTE).

Getting CTE also seems to be far more prevalent in the NFL than in the military.

Also worth noting that you don't necessarily need to get a concussion to get CTE: https://www.aau.edu/research-schola...cte-may-occur-without-concussions-study-shows

I copied the previous post for below for you:

Joel, I'd love a citation for your comment that CTE is mainly found in 7+ year NFL vets. It feels very made up.

This study looks at the "hazard ratio" (chances of getting CTE vs. some baseline) of getting CTE when in college and the pros. They compared the rate of CTE found in dead players (because you can only diagnose when someone is dead) in HS, NCAA, and NFL. They use the HS rate as the baseline (which is likely higher than a control group of non-impact sport players). They found essentially the same for NCAA (2.38x HS players) and NFL players (2.47x HS players)
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9989358/

I'm not a medical researcher (I'm an engineer). But to get an idea of how big hazard ratios are, I think it's usually a good thing to compare to smoking (which everyone basically agrees is among the most dangerous things you can do). My understanding is that the hazard ratio for smokers to get cancer is about 3x the non-smoking population. So playing college football isn't quite as bad, but it's getting close.

Note that if they used NCAA players as the baseline for NFL players, the hazard ratio is small enough that it probably doesn't mean anything (1.03x).

Note that it's also very difficult to determine who has CTE because (1) the player needs to be dead because (2) you need to cut open and examine the brain. So they can't do a big trial looking at all the players in HS, college, and the NFL to see.

Another study found that basically every NFL player they looked at had CTE (345 / 376).
https://www.bumc.bu.edu/camed/2023/...cte-in-345-of-376-former-nfl-players-studied/

ETA: Here's another paper I found from the New England Journal of Medicine. Talks about CTE in Vets, but also has info on people who played contact sports.

They found that ~ 4.4% had CTE. The same study found CTE in ~ 17% of people who played contact sports and 0% of people who didn't.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2203199

 

YES and by playing multiple years magnifies the chances of getting CTE. It is not the young players or return men that are most at risk is what I'm saying.

The NFL has done a good job by limiting head shots and making them 15 yard fouls.

NOW the kickoff rules have changed as a result there are less big plays / returns these days. Check the data.

Change the rules back to the 70's starting with moving the kickoff line back 5 yards. Make touchbacks at the 20 yard line to encourage returns.

Can you smell what I'm cookin?

 

Joel.

Read the part about CTE prevalence in NCAA vs. NFL again.

Then ask yourself: If college players are getting CTE at the same rate as NFL players, how can I possibly believe that CTE only affects veteran NFL players?

When you're doing doing that ask yourself: If they find evidence of CTE in the brains of almost every NFL player they ever look at, why do I think it's only guys who play for a long time that get CTE? Especially when they find it in the same rate in brains of NCAA players and NFL players?

Finally, look at the info that Bubba posted about returns after the latest rule changes. Then you can ask yourself: Did the most recent rule changes increase or decrease the number of returns on kickoffs?

 

It is funny that no one here is talking about the proposed rule change for DK Metcalf. The NFL now wants the ability to suspend players like DK, from games where they have not been penalized on the field.

Rooney has his rule, and now DK Metcalf will be getting his rule.


https://steelersnow.com/nfl-considers-rule-change-after-dk-metcalf-incident/
The NFL competition has proposed a rule change that might have seen Pittsburgh Steelers wide receiver DK Metcalf get ejected from his team’s game against the Detroit Lions last year.

The competition committee put forward five potential rule changes and three bylaw changes on Tuesday. Those changes will be voted on by the NFL owners at their annual meeting in Phoenix next week.


One of the five rule changes would allow the NFL league office to consult with on-field officials about potential ejections for flagrant football or non-football actions, whether or not the play was flagged by the officials. Currently, the league office can only consult on plays where a flag is thrown by the on-field officiating staff.

Metcalf shoved Lions fan Ryan Kennedy in the first half of a game between the Steelers and Lions on Dec. 21, after Kennedy had been heckling Metcalf.

 

WOW
didn't hear much about this one til now
Media doing everything they can to keep this on the DL
They should fine the organization and broadcast company too if they should miss an altercation.
I want the best out of my viewing experiences.

 

LoL. Exactly

 

I imagine I probably got it, and all Brother, and all My Cousins. If it's as bad, or as easy to get as they say.

 

That’s where I have assigned seating

 

I actually miss getting to sit at the kids table. Life was so much simpler then.

 

Agreed
I sit there voluntarily
Adults = Drama

 

While player safety is important, it is also true that football is a contact sport that individuals choose to play willingly. Players get paid handsomely. Furthermore, given that the average NFL career lasts approximately four years—particularly for those on return teams—the frequency of CTE is not that great here.

• It mainly found with the 7+ years vets. - JB

Then ask yourself: If college players are getting CTE at the same rate as NFL players, how can I possibly believe that CTE only affects veteran NFL players?

When you're doing doing that ask yourself: If they find evidence of CTE in the brains of almost every NFL player they ever look at, why do I think it's only guys who play for a long time that get CTE? Especially when they find it in the same rate in brains of NCAA players and NFL players?

Finally, look at the info that Bubba posted about returns after the latest rule changes. Then you can ask yourself: Did the most recent rule changes increase or decrease the number of returns on kickoffs?[/QUOTE]

Now I feel you are not quoting me truthfully and are putting words into my mouth.

I never said CTE only affects veteran players ( 7+ years )! Only that it is most commonly found with those who have more head collisions. Players in years 1-4 certainly have less head collisions. Think.

You can say my bad and we are cool , or I'm done talking to you in this thread.


- JB

 

I can't tell what you're trying to prove by quoting the part I was quoting about you saying that it is "mainly found in 7+ year vets" as some way of trying to argue that I was putting words in your mouth when I said that you thought it only affected 7+ year vets.

Also again totally ignoring that the hazard ratio is the same for college and NFL players.

FWIW, I think it's fine for you to be honest about the fact that you think the entertainment value and the potential compensation for the players is worth the risk if the players are willing to take the risk knowing that it's there (with the qualifiers I've put in here I don't think it's an unreasonable point of view).

I think the league is very, very worried that they'll get sued into oblivion if they take that position (especially if they at any point tried to minimize the risks when they knew they were real at any point in the past).

 

I would say most likely if you grew up playing football or wrestling. You mentioned before you boxed at one time, maybe? That's also high risk for obvious reasons.


My main point in that post you quoted is that CTE isn't the result of getting concussions. Players that haven't had a concussion history are still at the same risk for CTE. It's all those little hits and your brain getting bumped around over time, that's the major risk of CTE.

My son played football from 6yrs old through the 9th grade. He quit football to play basketball full time, basketball had become his passion by then. HS football would have wanted him to put on a lot of weight as well and he didn't want to be a 300pounder. Had we known as much about CTE then as we do now, I don't think I would have let him play football at all.

 

I hated it when I was a kid because I wanted to know what the old people were talking about

When I moved up and found out I wanted to go back

 

I want the 1970's rules for kickoffs.

 

The game of football is risky to the body. If a man is concerned, play flag football instead.

Show me the hazard ratio for college and pros. You brought this up, not I. Now that is something I like to see. Don't worry I won't put words in your mouth .

The NFL is worried about being sued , but they rarely lose in court.

Every single player who plays knows the risk and is being paid hand only in the NFL and signs his contract willingly.

Part of the problem is proving there has been cognitive decline due to football and if so much.

Again those who have suffered for most from cognitive decline are not guys who are out of the league in four years, but the players in the league for 7+ years. I challenge you to prove me wrong here. I am guessing you will pass.

On the topic of player's health I am very for it.

If the NFL truly fears kickoffs and the harm it can bring to the body they could eliminate the play altogether and give each team the ball at the 20.

 

It's in the link to the paper that I linked right after I said it.

Which is why I put the link there (twice). It's the paper that's linked directly after the paragraph where I made the argument. In the original post. And then in italics when I repeated the post for you so you didn't have to go back and hunt for it.

Notice that the first post I have on this topic is asking you to provide a citation (that's a reference) for your claim that it's mostly a problem for 7+ year vets.

 

This exactly.