Will Canada improve ?

You’re comparing a probable future member of the hof to a rookie? Sorry, but offensive coordinators can and do call plays in two minute drills.

 

I'm not comparing anything. I should have said plays don't always come in from the sideline or the quarterback directly. It can be a combination of both. Of course coaches or offensive coordinators can and do call plays in 2-minute situations. Coaches call specific plays and control timeouts and clock stoppages in certain instances, but there often isn't enough time for them to even do all of that. It's usually a combination of both plays from the sidelines and calling your own depending on how much time is available and if there are any stoppages.

It doesn't even matter whether Pickett did it or not in every situation. It doesn't change the point I was making that the offense operated better when Canada wasn't calling plays. It was more apparent when Ben was under center. It's not even debatable. The point is exactly the same. Canada was the OC in 2021 and the offense was far more effective when Ben had full control. Players were saying that Ben was even using old plays from the older offensive system under Fichtner at times in 2-minute situations. That's the definition of being better without Canada involved.

In any case. Here's Kenny saying himself that he can and does call plays in the 2-minute drill situation.

 

That video doesn’t say what you think.

 

When he'd do that you'd hear 5-6 guys scream, "go forward you dumbass". As I grow older I enjoy watching the young get so worked up over each play. I remember being the same way.

 

I know of an old fart who still does

 

Here's a written article that goes on to explain better than the short video where it talks about the ability to change plays out there specifically in 2-minute situations. https://steelersdepot.com/2022/12/t...for-us-pickett-on-being-able-to-change-plays/

He was asked a direct question from the reporter whether he can change plays in the 2-minute situation. He clearly says he can, but he didn't have to in that situation because there were clock stoppages to go over things on the sideline. It's context is better in the link above where it explains the limited audibles that the offense allows with Kenny or Mitch Trubiski.

I already explained that my whole point was that when Canada was out of the loop, particularly in 2021 with Ben, that the offense was clearly better and they came back to win 7 games like that.

I don't think Pickett gets enough opportunity to audible out of bad plays, so in that sense he doesn't have a ton of control. I think it's one of the things holding back the offense. I've stated that in other posts. I'm reading it as if he gets more control during the 2-minute drills and will be able to change a play or make a call.

I know he gives more input on the sidelines talking to the coaches about what he likes or not in certain situations, but I read it as if he can and does occasionally change a play.

Are you reading it as Kenny Pickett doesn't get to change a play under any circumstance? I'm curious, because you could read it both ways I guess.

 

Again. It doesn’t say what you think. They give specific examples where they’re on the sideline communicating. That doesn’t mean canad has been taken out of the equation. That means the qb, coach, and OC are communicating and coming up with a plan together.

 

With Ben, Canada was taken completely out of the equation for periods of games, particularly at the end of games.

With Kenny, it's different of course. For the most part you are right. The QB, coach, and OC are communicating and getting input from Kenny to come up with something together.

The specific part of the article and the quote from Kenny is when they specifically him in the context of being able to change a play.

"I guess it's there if I want to use it." Pickett said when asked about his ability to change the play during the team's final drives. "We were fortunate to have some timeouts, and come to the sideline and communicate."

It sounds like he definitely can change the play because he says he can, but I'm not sure that he does. Clearly he isn't free to just do anything he wants.

 

What in the world makes you think this

Even in a hurry up offense the OC is in his ear

 

I was speaking more about Ben in 2021. Ben was calling his own plays. Players on the field have said Ben was calling plays that weren't even in Canada's playbook. He was using plays from past offensive systems at times. He went completely off the reservation and took Canada out of the equation, particularly at the end of games. That's how they had 7 comeback wins that season.

Also, the earpiece gets shutdown with 15 seconds to go. If the defense makes an adjustment and the offense needs to counter, the OC doesn't have any input.

 

Could be(I'm not saying I know His mind), but it could be that early in a game He is playing it safe...wanting no turnovers, and by the end of the game His mindset is.....Well I have nothing to lose now. So He takes more chances.

 

That’s why they call audibles all QBs do that

 

It seems some people don't know how much control many quarterbacks have over an offense. The quarterbacks that have total control of an offense are given that power and control because they are capable of more than the coaching staff in certain situations because of how they are able to do things quickly and easily with the added benefit of the input of players on the field...plus the lack of any communication being available to them in their helmet once the play clock goes down to 15 seconds. All communications are cut off from the sideline in professional football with 15 seconds on the play clock.

The quarterbacks can audible to a completely different play, change protections, checks...basically anything. They may know that a player is banged up and to run a play to the other side to give them a break or to get them off the field on the next play. There are all kinds of things that happen on a football field that the quarterback is best equipped to handle so long as he is capable of the power given to him and he had the full understanding and mastery of the playbook.

It just doesn't happen in hurry up or 2-minute. Just going no-huddle can give the QB free reign to control everything at the line of scrimmage....and they do. The best quarterbacks usually have that type of authority and power...almost always with the coach's permission and understanding.

Here's an article with Ben about calling his own plays.

https://steelersdepot.com/2022/11/b...he-wanted-to-call-his-own-plays-in-no-huddle/

 

And are you aware that was because Ben didn’t learn the playbook

That is not a compliment to Ben it made him look like an idiot

Every playbook is big enough and the terminology if you learn it you can call any play at the line

 

Are you aware Your the only person that believes that???
You are the only person I have ever heard say that Ben didn't learn His play book. Besides Ben joking about it. You don't find it funny that all the players say He did, and all His coaches say He did, but somehow You think He didn't. Very funny How under every OC I seen Him run different plays then the one before. Hell even with Canada. Crazy He could do that ....yet never learn the playbooks. LoL

 

It's not that he didn't know the playbook. Ben was intentionally calling plays that he knew weren't in the playbook using the terminology from a previous offense they ran.

I didn't compliment him. I'm saying he did it specifically at the end of games and in particular situations and the offense would move the ball and score to pull out games. I'm not condoning what he did, but he did it. Players have talked about it. They would run the offense under Fichtner or under Canada for most of the game and not accomplish all that much. Then Ben would take complete control of things and move the ball and put points on the board late in games for the win.

I wasn't there. I don't know exactly what was said, but there are players that have said it happened that way. I've read some articles with players saying it happened.

 

I'm not trying to get you upset. I'm just stating what I have read. I'm sure Ben was going off the reservation with that.

Playbooks are filled with plays. Sure there's terminology involved, but plays are plays. The route trees and rout combinations are built into each play in that playbook. In other words, a bad play is a bad play. Every playbook is different.

All top tier quarterbacks have a ton of control within an offense...and some offenses are better than others. That's why there are so many different offensive systems with their own plays and play design and terminology. Many share the same terminology like you say, but the actual play designs are built into the plays that are in the playbook. That's why a guy like Andy Reid is considered an offensive genius. He designs plays using various route combinations and formations to create space for his players.

 

Why are you bringing up Ben again? You just said you weren’t comparing Ben to a rookie then compare Ben’s tenure to a rookie. I remember Ben saying he called plays that weren’t in the playbook while Haley was OC. Then clarified his comments during the tuesday press conference that he was just using hand signals. Have a source for your claim?

 

Because this is a thread about Canada and his offense.

What don't you understand about it?

Sure....the HOF quarterback had no idea what he was talking about when he first said it. Sure, Ben was wrong the first time. Again, an NFL franchise quarterback didn't know what he was saying when he just said it off the cuff. He didn't just say what people wanted to hear on Tuesday.

So I guess Ben was my source. Funny how you know about it.

You are saying that Ben said it. What's your source?

Unbelieveable.

 

Wtf that was over 10 years ago against the raiders and Haley was the OC. Come up with a source relevant to the current topic.

notice the date at the top? September 25 2012
https://steelersdepot.com/2012/09/r...ld-playbook-comments-made-after-raiders-game/

 

Reminds me of something Bradshaw once said. Something to the effect that Swann would come back and say I'm wide open over the middle, forget the playbook and throw it to me. Bradshaw said a lot of times the receivers would come into the huddle and tell him no way that guy can cover me so just wing it my way. Now that is football!!

 

He’s not the only one. However, he might be the only one regarding Canada’s playbook. Ten or so years ago ben talked about his “sandlot style” and how it came to fruition. Basically he said as a rookie he didn’t know the playbook and would run around until he could find an open receiver

 

That is what I was referring to when I said besides Ben saying that.

 

Ben called his own plays for an entire second half when Randy Fichtner couldn't get it done. https://fansided.com/2020/12/28/ben-roethlisberger-took-play-calling-hands-second-half-comeback/



https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/arti...erent_extraordinary_seasons/s1_17101_38358962

Ben in a struggle with Canada about play calling. Says Canada won't allow audibles: https://www.rotoballer.com/player-news/ben-roethlisberger-questions-play-calling/935237

This stuff had been going on with Ben for a long time before Canada got here.

Ben admitted many times to just drawing up plays on the fly. Or adjusting routes that weren't part of the route tree like he did with Antonio Brown. Just tell a guy within the same play called to run a different route. He always did stuff like that.

Look at the dates of the articles linked above. Some were from 2020. Some from 2021. Ben has a history of doing stuff like this. Part of it is what made him great. I'm not sure why people here are acting like they are surprised Ben wasn't always a guy that did everything by the book. He has a long history of doing his own thing and playing his own style outside the structure of a playbook.

It's part of what made Ben....Ben.

Everyone acting like this is some made up stuff. This is well known and talked about by several former teammates along with some media. Ben did stuff like this all the time, over many years and offensive coordinators.