Why this butt kicking was a good thing.

Troy, Ben, Ike, Beard, Greg Warren, Grad, and Timmons is really not a spring chicken anymore either.

 

That list was from september 2013, the start of the season, the new list will come out for 2014 next month and i'll bet were still not in the top 10 of the youngest teams, I was just answering Macs statement that we are younger than philly and seattle at their stage 2-3 years ago, but they made the playoffs during their rebuild, I dont see us doing that......

 

Since you like Belichick so much maybe you should root for the Patriots . This team is in transition they will make mistakes, and there will be uneven performances.

 

Excuses, Cowher had a say in picking his QB too. It's Cowher fault for sticking with Kordell as a starter for 5 seasons. Cowher played conservative football, he played not to lose in the playoffs. He learned that from his mentor Marty Schottenheimer who also struggled in the playoffs.

 

Cowher was a game manager period. If he would've evolved beyond that, we may have a little more hardware to polish in the case. Trent and the ravens team that one year is a good example... They played to win, not lose. And last I checked we had the D to get the job done for quite awhile. Cowher was Marty ball 2.0 and pissed us all off quite a bit. I don't know how Tomlins legacy is gonna round out, but he appears to not have a committed plan at this stage. He seems willy nilly and it has gotten him some success, but I think if he put his thumb on this team and had a plan, at least the consistency part might become apparent even if it was in a negative way. This team needs consistency week in and out. And it would be nice to see a little fire and passion in their play consistently. We haven't seen that other than in bursts here and there for a long time.

 

Yeah, I knew that was coming. I don't like Belichick but I do respect the fact that he has an innate ability to get the most out of mediocre talent. He also knows how to strategically gameplan to exploit the other team's weaknesses, make in game adjustments on the fly and generally wins the chess matches known as NFL games. I just don't see those qualities in our current head coach and it has me concerned. It's easy to hide coaching deficiencies when you have veteran leadership in its prime, but when the tide goes out you can see who's swimming naked.

 

This isn't exactly true. Take a look at the drafts from 1992 through 2003. Tell me where you see an obvious decision by Cowher and Donahoe/Colbert to pass on a franchise QB. Or even avoid drafting a QB.

The only time (and I was critical of this way back then) was the decision to take Plaxico Burress over Chad Pennington in Colbert's first draft with Cowher in 2000. In hindsight, that draft pretty much epitomizes everything about Colbert I don't like. The drafting of a shining hood ornament (WR) in Burress in an attempt to make a mediocre QB better. Then wasting a pick on a developmental quarterback (Tee Martin) who had none of the strict character traits necessary to succeed at the NFL level (undersized, questionable arm talent, little upside).

People forget Kordell Stewart was a 2nd round pick and a fairly high investment at the time. The 90's were very bleak in quarterback draft talent. Stewart was picked 60th. You want the list of QB's drafted higher from 1992-1999?

1992: Klingler, Maddox, Blundin, Sacca
1993: Bledsoe, Mirer, Hobert
1994: Shuler, Dilfer
1995: McNair, K. Collins, T. Collins, Stewart
1996: Banks
1997: Druckenmiller, Plummer
1998: Manning, Leaf
1999: Couch, McNabb, A. Smith, Culpepper, McNown, King

Of the late round "diamonds" in the rough from 1992-1999 only SIX out of SIXTY-SEVEN draft quarterbacks AFTER PICK #60 went on to a career with 59+ career AV (that was Kordell's career AV by Football Reference)

1992: Brad Johnson (74 AV) and Jeff Blake (68 AV)
1993: Trent Green (94 AV) and Mark Brunell (96 AV)
1994: None
1995: None
1996: None
1997: None
1998: M. Hasselback (85 AV)
1999: A. Brooks (65 AV)

I find the Cowher criticism of his quarterback issues early in his career highly revisionist. Exactly WHO and WHEN and HOW was Cowher and Donahoe supposed to magically get from 1992-1999 to improve the quarterback play on this team? I mean, it's easy now to look back and complain about not picking Brunell in his 2nd year as a head coach (36 or 37 years old), but a LOT of teams missed on him. In fact most fans wanted local Alex Van Pelt that year and never even mentioned the college backup to Billy Joe Hobert.

Who else?

Should they have paid Neil O'Donnel in free agency more than the Jets? Out bid the idiot Pat Kirwin?

Should they have traded the farm to move up and target David Klingler (#6 overall), Trent Dilfer (#6 overall), Kerry Collins (#5 overall), One of the guys in 1999 (all drafted in the top 12 of which 3 of the 5 were busts)?

Who else?

Don't talk crap about how Cowher had a "drafting strategy" against QB's in the 1990's. That's BS. The decade was void of talent and Cowher arguably did incredibly well with the talent he did have vs. the league. When they did decide on using a resource (on Kordell) it actually produce more than a LOT of other quarterbacks in that decade drafted much higher than him.

It wasn't until Colbert's arrival when the decisions got a bit more perplexing. Passing on Pennington in '00, picking Tee Martin over Tom Brady. Not considering Drew Brees when we came off a 9-7 missed playoff season and had a team QB Rating of 68.9. Over-valuing the quarterback play in 2001 and 2002 (with Maddox finally overtaking Stewart) that led to cluster mess of 2003 which led to FINALLY a position to draft a true franchise QB in Roethlisberger, that has covered up Colbert's stink for the past decade. A pick that Colbert basically "yes sirred" his greater boss (Rooney vs. Cowher) and had zero input or decision making.

The questionable QB decisions on this team started with Colbert's arrival and luckily covered up by the selection of Reothlsiberger (a kind of fall-into-to-lap decision that comes along once a generation to a franchise).

Cowher made GOOD decisions on QB's prior to 2000 and odd ones the minute Colbert started whispering in his ear. Without Rooney's intervention, Colbert would have been so far gone from this organization it's not funny and likely out of the league.

 

The Landry pick actually concerns me from the standpoint of if they were thinking he could be Ben's replacement they REALLY need a better qb evaluator.

 

Cowher worked with what he had in this league and did well. He went with Kordell, laughingly our franchise QB, but it was the best we could do at the time. Until a Ben or a Rivers came along the chin did a ton with what he had. He's an incredible coach. Give him Ben for his entire stint here, well you can just imagine. The search for a franchise QB will always go on even if your team is great in all other aspects (aka Cowher's Steelers) Teams without can make the playoffs but have a hard time advancimg thereafter. Duh

Tomlin not only has a franchise QB, he's got one of the best his entire Steelers' life.

This was just preseason, I think we're better than many here fear. Takes time to mesh because of all the changes but I loved their off season. They went after it, which is unSteeler like, but I give em kudos for it.

What has me worried is not the talent, not DL's D, I hope he stays for life, and not (God forbid take a breath people) the secondary. The Shazier pick was spot on IMO. It's the general malaise of the team. There seems to be no fear factor particularly with young rooks. Cowher had a bit of that too, the buddy and coach thing but he could turn on you in a flash too and they knew it. Seems to me our players self motivate and that worries me more.

 

This team will never be good on offense. Ever. Teams that are good on offense are committed to piling up points. This team just wants a lead to sit on.

 

Kind of what I've been saying in this thread and others. But to play along, I'll say this... Yeah this team is going to have to have a lead or take a lead and not relinquish it. When we can do that, I won't sweat nothing. Gotta get their first though. Last couple of years the O has risen up only to watch them go conservative and to watch the D botch leads away and or botch the opportunities for us to take the lead... Over and over again. This ain't our daddy's steelersorgrand daddy's for that matter when it comes to D! We have an O that if it clicks can ring stuff up, but I don't think the Dk can hang with the other track meet O's we'll need to outlast.

 

What QBs did Cowher pass up in the draft?

Chad Pennington? Drew Brees? A case could be made for Brees, but I would argue that Brees playing outdoors in the AFC North would be less than dominant.

 

If only hadn't kept all those great QBs we had on the bench just to let Kordell play. Just imagine how far we could have gotten with Mike Tomczak, Kent Graham and Tommy Maddox leading the way.

 

Everything else you said was spot on, but Chad Pennington? Really? And lets not pretend that Brady was a no brainer. He went in the 6th round for a reason.

 

Actually, Cowher is in the top 10 all-time for playoff wins with 12. He had a winning record at 12-9. You are correct, however, about Schottenheimer, who was 5-13.

 

I'd take him over Tomlin every time.

 

Chad Pennington would have been a perfect QB for Cowher. The guy just couldn't stay healthy. When he actually played he had an 12% better than average QB Rating. Ben Roethlisberger has a 15% better than average quarterback rating in his career. Not that different actually.

Whatever you want to say about Pennington, when the guy was healthy and played, he was efficient and perfect for the type of offense we ran in Pittsburgh at the time (and before the real "air it out" NFL period that started in 2004+).

 

Brees did pretty well outside at Purdue and the Big 10. Put Brees with Cowher and he would have turned into a different type player, but possibly a more successful one. It's not like Brees is setting the world on fire in the W/L department. 110-75 as a starer. 6-5 in the playoffs. Missing the playoffs 6 out of 12 years as the starting QB.

Brees is a hall of famer. And likely still would have been one (maybe for different reasons) had he played in Pittsburgh.

 

I've always felt like Pennington was a pretty good qb. He grew up not far from me and I have a buddy that is friends with his family. He owns a marina about 20 minutes from my house and he's a pretty good guy. He just couldn't stay healthy. Remember the Jets fans cheering when he got hurt? Disgraceful. He didn't really have a lot of arm strength though and also wasn't very mobile and when I think of qb's that "might have been" I always try and imagine them behind the line we've had for the last several years. Then I realize that probably none of them would have been successful because it took a special kind of player to endure what Ben has. Only Favre or McNair would have been able to handle it in my opinion.

 

The Roethlisberger era kind of erases my memory of 2000-2003, but back then, I was very pissed at the Plax vs. Pennington issue. We had a REALLY good team. We were stacked. Bettis, Farrior were incredible trades/acquisitions. We had Hines and Faneca. The offensive line was awesome.

And we kept winning despite very erratic quarterback play. Stewart was a head case. Maddox was a washout. That 2001 team was pretty cool. We rushed 580 times for a 4.8 clip (could you imagine that today!!!). We generated 55 sacks and 28 turnovers (remember the days!!!).

But Stewart was just Stewart back then. Sort of good, but sort of bad too. The guy just didn't have that last step to be a consistently good football player. Didn't seem to ever get to the point where he understood everything and was comfortable.

I don't know. I resent a lot of the early 2000's when I think back to what we could have been with Pennington at the helm. How he would have been LOVED in Pittsburgh. How he was a gutsy kid from a small, somewhat local college and just played with a fire and command of the huddle that the whole City would have latched onto to almost immediately after Stewart (who was the exact OPPOSITE of Pennington).

I agree his health might not have been any different here than New York, but you never know until you lace 'em up. Pennington might have loved Pittsburgh too.

I certainly think we beat New England in 2001. I certainly don't think we end up struggling in 2002 and 2003. Do we prevent Brady/Bellichick from becoming the team of the decade? Are we their nemesis instead of them being ours? Does Brady even become Brady without that first Super Bowl?

Lot's to wonder to me about that time period. Don't know if I'll ever really let it go on the what-if's.

 

I will always have a place in my heart for Slash though because he is the reason I became a Steelers fan. He was a phenomenal athlete back in the day. Coordinators just didn't know what to do with him. I've heard that he has talked some smack about Ben and he can shut his hole about that but for me I will always think of him as he was when I was like 13 years old and he was just "Slash".

 

We should have drafted Pennington and moved Kordy to WR full time where he would have flourished. That would have taken some guts and outside the box thinking, but it would have been the right move.

 

And Cowher had a hand in picking those scrub QBs, he had a say in the draft process he should've found one all those years. Baltimore won a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer and Tampa with Brad Johnson, let's not forget Cowher's 1-4 record in AFC championships games at home. That loss to San Diego in 1994 was one of the worst choke jobs ever, the Steelers were a much more talented team. San Diego had freaking Stan Humphries at QB.

 

Factoring in Pennington's actual career, it was hardly a mistake to pass on him.