Why does LeBeau ask the DL's to only stop the run?

Wood had nine sacks and basically missed half the year last year.

 

What Bull?This is exactly how we play and exactly the scheme we run....What part do you think is Bull?

DL does not take chances like the Ravens do,they line DL up in Gaps they slant them into those Gaps often...Show me one clip where our DL does this? I am not saying we shouldn't , I am saying we simply don't...

 

he had ten sacks the year before.

 

when smith and kirschke and kvo and baily were playing that pocket got pushed in. casey also was able to push it in from the front. bull is not wanting them or them not able to colapse that pocket in on a qb. yes it is their job. taking up blockers is not just letting the guy block you. it's making the guy block you. there is a difference.

it is in the scheme as you say but it is in the scheme if the de goes up field with his man the lb goes inside. if the de slants in with his man the lb goes up field. pushing in the pocket can be done by both means. it is their job to make the offensive linemen back into the qb and shrink the pocket. when both the DE and OLB go up field, there is usually a blitz from the ILB's coming. they run delay blitzes because the guard usually goes with the tackle to help out on the olb and the de.

balt. runs more of a 4 man front as their selection. they don't blitz inside near as much as we do either. we take alot more chances with our ilb's. usually an olb is doing more reading on this or a DE as you have seen keisel do alot of.

 

Well nine if those games were played beside smith so are you saying smith sucked becuase hehad the same through 8 beside hood

 

smith played in 6 games that year. sorry but his sack totals are down with ziggy then with smith, or eason or kirschke per year. by the way i would never say aaron smith sucked. sorry you don't like the numbers but they are what they are.

 

when smith and kirschke and kvo and baily were playing that pocket got pushed in. casey also was able to push it in from the front. bull is not wanting them or them not able to colapse that pocket in on a qb. yes it is their job. taking up blockers is not just letting the guy block you. it's making the guy block you. there is a difference.

it is in the scheme as you say but it is in the scheme if the de goes up field with his man the lb goes inside. if the de slants in with his man the lb goes up field. pushing in the pocket can be done by both means. it is their job to make the offensive linemen back into the qb and shrink the pocket. when both the DE and OLB go up field, there is usually a blitz from the ILB's coming. they run delay blitzes because the guard usually goes with the tackle to help out on the olb and the de.

balt. runs more of a 4 man front as their selection. they don't blitz inside near as much as we do either. we take alot more chances with our ilb's. usually an olb is doing more reading on this or a DE as you have seen keisel do alot of. [/quote:1vamtbmv]
Oh I see..I do want them to push the pocket they just are not asked to do so IMO....A big part of why we don't is our coverage on the back end...We don't have a ball hawk at the Safety position and DL allows Troy to free lance to much....IMO this is why the middle is open and open early and often against us this also negates the Fronts ability to make plays....To further add to this problem we don't have LB'S to match up with TE'S and RB'S which also hinders the type of blitzes and stunts we can call safely...

The bottom line is the rules help the O and the quick passing game so most Teams use this against us and don't hold the ball very long when they drop back.....IMO we need better coverage guys at multiple spots before we can turn the guys up front loose.....I agree I think we should turn them loose more often,, I am just not sure we can.....

Also I will add if we score the ball better things will get a lot easier on the D...If we can get Teams down early we could afford to take more chances on D....This is why I am glad Haley is here ,he is more impressed with scoring than he is with the deep ball or stats....

 

Oh I see..I do want them to push the pocket they just are not asked to do so IMO....A big part of why we don't is our coverage on the back end...We don't have a ball hawk at the Safety position and DL allows Troy to free lance to much....IMO this is why the middle is open and open early and often against us this also negates the Fronts ability to make plays....To further add to this problem we don't have LB'S to match up with TE'S and RB'S which also hinders the type of blitzes and stunts we can call safely...

The bottom line is the rules help the O and the quick passing game so most Teams use this against us and don't hold the ball very long when they drop back.....IMO we need better coverage guys at multiple spots before we can turn the guys up front loose.....I agree I think we should turn them loose more often,, I am just not sure we can.....

Also I will add if we score the ball better things will get a lot easier on the D...If we can get Teams down early we could afford to take more chances on D....This is why I am glad Haley is here ,he is more impressed with scoring than he is with the deep ball or stats....[/quote:s6pw8sf3]

i fully agree that the rules and the fact that there are more passes and 3 step drops hinder our fronts. our guys have to get off of blocks quicker and more efficiently nowdays. that's not one of ziggy's strong points. that's why i think he's a much better fit at the nose. pushing the pocket into the face of the qb. heyward and keisel do a much better job of getting off of blockers to make blockers have to block them or get help. does this make sense? smith, KVO,kirschke disengauged from blockers much better then did eason and baily and ziggy. size and length do matter. more quickness then just bull rush ability may become the new norm for 3-4 DE's. times are changing and the type of player will have to change with it.

 

Oh I see..I do want them to push the pocket they just are not asked to do so IMO....A big part of why we don't is our coverage on the back end...We don't have a ball hawk at the Safety position and DL allows Troy to free lance to much....IMO this is why the middle is open and open early and often against us this also negates the Fronts ability to make plays....To further add to this problem we don't have LB'S to match up with TE'S and RB'S which also hinders the type of blitzes and stunts we can call safely...

The bottom line is the rules help the O and the quick passing game so most Teams use this against us and don't hold the ball very long when they drop back.....IMO we need better coverage guys at multiple spots before we can turn the guys up front loose.....I agree I think we should turn them loose more often,, I am just not sure we can.....

Also I will add if we score the ball better things will get a lot easier on the D...If we can get Teams down early we could afford to take more chances on D....This is why I am glad Haley is here ,he is more impressed with scoring than he is with the deep ball or stats....[/quote:5u42nnlx]

i fully agree that the rules and the fact that there are more passes and 3 step drops hinder our fronts. our guys have to get off of blocks quicker and more efficiently nowdays. that's not one of ziggy's strong points. that's why i think he's a much better fit at the nose. pushing the pocket into the face of the qb. heyward and keisel do a much better job of getting off of blockers to make blockers have to block them or get help. does this make sense? smith, KVO,kirschke disengauged from blockers much better then did eason and baily and ziggy. size and length do matter. more quickness then just bull rush ability may become the new norm for 3-4 DE's. times are changing and the type of player will have to change with it. [/quote:5u42nnlx]

I agree ....Same with the LB spot we need more speed there as well IMO..

 

Smith's first year was 1999 he played in 6 games and had zero sacks (check NFL.com) - essentially didn't play as a starter that's why.

Point is not that they don't get sacks but the scheme is designed to get the linebackers to make the sacks that's where they come from for the most part. It's not like LeBeau fines the DL if they touch the QB it's just that they have to make more of a play to get a sack than the LBs do.

The DL's come from the same spot on the line for the most part, they engage the Oline first and the LBs hit different gaps from different places on the line. It only makes sense that they'd get most of the sacks. When the offense is forced to put a tackle on Harrison or Woodley becuase they destroy tight ends and running backs it does give the DL more of a chance to make a play.

 

Totally I agree Mac Daddyo. Smith and Hampton's age has something to do with it.

I also think over the years as the league has caught up to our 3-4, Lebeau is able to take less chances. I seem to recall Buckner and Seals being more pass rushing threats than Smith/Keisel, and then they would do crazy stuff like drop into coverage...don't really see that too much anymore...

 

With the exception of last year we are always top five in sacks normally one or two yet our line never gets sacks. I dont understand what people want if we switched to a dline pressure system people would complain about the lbers not doing anything. As long as we win and get sacks i dont care where they come from.

 

all i'm saying is the sacks from the line are down. from 2000-2009 we averaged 10 sacks a year from these guys. 2010 it went 8.5. last year from the D-linemen it went to 6.5.

 

When Mean Joe Greene drew triple coverage the other guys on the line looked a whole lot better and got sacks. When James Harrison draws a tackle to block him the line looks better. Take out Woodley and Harrison for extended periods of time and the offense adjusts their blocking schemes. If your best pass rushers aren't playing why wouldn't your sack total go down?

 

I don't want to get into the whole this guy makes that guy look better thing (which is a very valid point!). I know that a 28 year old Hampton makes the ILBs look a lot better than a 34 year old Hampton does. You could go on and on.

For me though the issue is about the linemen rushing the passer. If you just watch them, you can see that many, if not most times, they are simply not trying very hard. That's the issue at stake here. Why aren't they going balls out, like the LBs? It must be scheme. But come on, are you saying these guys aren't good enough to follow the scheme AND try to get to the QB? They need to try. I feel like if we rush 5 against 6, one of our guys should get there. We are talented enough. But if only two of those guys are trying, we have almost no chance.

Another point in fairness of all our pass rushers is that teams have sort of "caught on" to our weakness and are doing a lot of quick passes. For years I wondered why more teams didn't try to exploit us that way. It happened occasionally. I think like 10 years ago the Patriots and Rich Gannon's Raiders both had games against us where they passed the ball like 20+ times in a row, and they weren't even behind. We could never stop that stuff because we didn't have the cover corners. Hopefully that will change with Allen and Brown.

 

Ding ding ding we've got a winner alex tell him what he won.

 

Except we didn't win the division and had to get in the playoffs with a wildcard. We lost division because we got beat twice by the Ratbirds including a game winning drive. In those two games, Pitt had 2 sacks total and Ratbirds had 7 total. Against Denver, Pitt has 0 sacks while Tebow and crew had 5. Probably a significant factor. Other than Woodley, who else do you expect to put us in the top five for sacks? Harrison? He is turning 34 in May. Worilds? To be determined. Where will the sacks come from?

Also FYI:

2011 - Tied for 17th
2010 - 1st
2009 - 2nd
2008 - 2nd
2007 - Tied for 13th
2006 - 11th
2005 - Tied for 3rd
2004 - Tied for 7th
2003 - Tied for 17th
2002 - 3rd

In the last 10 years, we were top five in sacks five times and outside of top 10 four times. Pretty good but certainly not "always". I still say D line should be asked to do MORE. From the Aaron Smith piece, it sounds like LeBeau gives D line a pass (forgive the pun) when it comes to pass rush.

 

If the scheme is so good that other teams have to adjust what they do to counter it then it must be working. If you're forcing them to play the way you want them to it helps explain the success the Steelers have had.

Second, if your best players are out or aging it makes sense that your quality of play will suffer. Every scheme benefits from talent. Belichick wasn't a genius in Cleveland. Give him Brady and a strong defensive unit and he's Wile E. Coyote Super-Genius.

Finally, with the scheme they have and even with other teams "catching on" they gave up 14 points a game which is what you want your defense to do. Nobody was better no matter how much some people love to beef about the defense. Now, if Woodley and Harrison are healthy I think the sack total and the turnovers (more pressure helps that) go up and the defense looks even better. It's not Madden, other teams are going to make plays it's why they get the big bucks too.

 

Yes we didnt win the division but that wasn't becuase of the pass rush. We were missing our two biggest guys most of the year. Harrison was finally starting to look right after his back and broke his eye then worilds went down then wood then carter. I give last season a "pass" due to the fact that in our system when all you lose your top four olbs three at one time its going to kill you.

 

Yes they gave up 14 points a game but they had the 6th easiest schedule. Other than New England who did we beat that was good? They were the only team we beat with more than 9 wins and we faced 4 teams with five wins or less (Indy, KC, Sea, Cle). Bottom line is that our defense was good because we played bad teams with bad quarterbacks. By the way, in those five games against the really crappy teams, these were the sack totals:

Pitt 5, Sea 2
Pitt 1, Indy 3
Pitt 4, Jac 3
2xPitt 5, Cle 4

So we barely outplayed four teams in this category that went a combined 13 - 51. D line MOAR SAX PLS!

 

I think me and Mac are on the same page with this one?

There are muliple reasons why the current scheme with the current players is leading to a drop in production.....

He touched on some as did I....But the facts are the facts ,we need production....

I think if we make some switches player wise and we tweak some things scheme wise and we produce real production on Offense then these Goals are more than obtainable....

As a guy who played some CB in the past I will say it helps all these things if I can beat my guy and reckognize the weak spots in the zone.....I think Brown is such a guy and we need more of that as soon as we can get it.......It's 1 thing to be able to shut my guy down within the scheme it's totally another thing to do so in a way that helps all around me.....Not sure if that is clear ,,but if I have help and I know where the weak spot is on a certain play,I should do all I can on that play not to exploit that weakness,,,,because on tape it looks like I did my part ,but if it hurt the Team and I knew the potential to do so was there then I really didn't do my job to the best of my abilities....This type of thing happens every game on both sides of the ball,the TEAM that does that least Wins the MOST...

 

You don't have to convince me that our defense is good or that our scheme is good. I just think our pass rush could be improved.

 

And I think it will be if Harrison and Woodley are healthy. James wasn't James this year. He is a game changer and he'll be the difference next year.

I wasn't referring to you specifically on the whole good defense thing. Even the number one defense has things it can do better - for us it was sacks and turnovers.

 

you can say our lb'ers are the stregnth and they are but you also have to aknowledge we are paying ziggy 1st round draft pick money. we should have more production out of him. thats why i'm saying move him inside, to help out and find a guy that can help with the pass rush. i will add , it's not always about the sacks either. the sacks are fine but pressure in the qb's face can cause turnovers. something else we are not producing like we used to. our 1st round DE's need to be beating your average joe's at least with pressure. the denver game front 3 wise about made me wanna puke. get off a block already.

 

That was the absolute low point. They were clearly obsessed with keeping Tebow from running, and didn't give two craps about him throwing it. They wanted him to throw it, like they'd have a better chance of intercepting one than allowing a completion. Oops. Ziggy in particular looked like he was a QB spy. A lot of times he didn't even engage the blocker, he just stood and watched in case Tebow tried to run.