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Why does Edmunds seem like an afterthought?

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Jball, May 30, 2019.

  1. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but no. This simply isn't true. The success or failure of other players taken this year is not relevant to the heavy price paid for Bush. That trade needs to be judged solely on the production of Bush.
     
  2. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    If they passed on an All-Pro for a solid player, they botched it.

    Edmunds was not the better prospect. Leonard was rated higher on many draft lists. It is inaccurate, if not dishonest, to claim Edmunds was the better prospect going into the draft.

    The Steelers supposedly tried to trade up for one of the inside linebackers who went ahead of them. Bostic was never more than a stopgap. The Steelers signed free agents at inside linebacker and safety, both of whom they expected to at least be options as starters. Burnett was the more highly-regarded player, so inside linebacker was the more glaring need.

    There has been a lot of talk about hindsight in this discussion. Your claim that it wouldn't have made sense to take Leonard based on the offseason moves is absolutely hindsight, building your argument on the failure of Burnett.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019 at 10:47 AM
  3. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    Steelers lost a 2nd round pick... and have to rely on 3rd rounders to make up for the loss due to the Bush trade. So yes... it's all relevant.
     
  4. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Wrong, Leonard absolutely wasn't the better prospect, thats your fantasy that you are clinging to regardless of scouting reports and rankings. No one was talking up Leonard prior to the draft, not even you, at least not here.

    Edmunds made more sense, if he doesn't pan out they obviously chose wrong. I don't know why you struggle so hard with opinions.
     
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  5. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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  6. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    It isn't. They could have had another talented player in addition to those third-round picks. I'm surprised you are buying into Colbert's spin so easily.
     
  7. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    I said he should have been the pick after they took Edmunds. I have been proven correct in that statement.

    Edmunds did not make more sense. Inside linebacker was every bit the need as safety at the time and Leonard was ranked higher on the draft lists I saw. You're making stuff up at this point because the facts don't fit your fantasy.

    Edmunds has been a below-average player so far. Leonard is an All-Pro. The rest is you just being stubborn.
     
  8. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    We've done this to death, but I'll keep going. Whether Leonard would have thrived in the Steelers defense is nothing but speculation. Don't the Colts have a 4-3 base? For all we know, Leonard could have rotted on the bench or just play Special Teams exclusively for the Steelers in his rookie season. This seems to be the Tomlin/Butler way. Leonard probably wouldn't have gotten any snaps on D until later in the year at most... and he sure as hell wouldn't have been All Pro only playing a few games late in the season.
     
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  9. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    So a guy who was an All-Pro playing middle linebacker, which is more demanding, wouldn't make an impact as an inside linebacker on a team starting scrubs at those positions. Repeating a terrible argument like that doesn't make it any better.

    Tomlin has given rookies the opportunity to shine early if they are good enough in the past and this is a rookie who was good enough to earn All-Pro honors. Also, it isn't just about 2018. It is about the level of ability Leonard and Edmunds have shown so far. Leonard showed he has All-Pro talent. Edmunds was below average at best. That affects the team going forward, too.
     
  10. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    So 4-3 middle linebacker is more difficult to learn than mack or buck ILB in a 3-4? Seems like the ILBs would have more responsibilities than the middle linebacker since the MLB has 4 down lineman in the trenches vs. run and pass. But hey... I'm no expert.

    Maybe we should ask Ray Lewis... he played in both alignments.
     
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  11. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    Jury is still out on Edmunds being a mistake, Talk about misleading the reader. This year & next will help determine who wins ( I know that is important for you).
     
  12. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    You think an All-Pro would sit behind Jon Bostic and L.J. Fort. Seriously.
     
  13. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    You're still arguing, so clearly it is important to you.

    It's not misleading at all. Leonard is an All-Pro. Edmunds is not even close.

    So much for you putting more thought into your posts after the failure of the Lambert example.
     
  14. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    No... probably not. But Leonard is an All Pro with the Colts in a 4-3 base. Leonard will never be a Steeler, so it's kind of pointless to keep dwelling on it. Gotta roll with the players we have.
     
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  15. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. There are no buts about it.
     
  16. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but it's kinda like the Marino situation back in the 80's. It's fun to speculate how many more Super Bowls the Steelers would have with Marino at QB. Sadly... it didn't happen.
     
  17. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    For F@**sake he wasn't an all pro from day one of training camp stop trying to claim that he was. He was a strong side outside linebacker for South Carolina State and undersized to boot. He was a projected late round pick with a potential move to inside and didn't get picked until the second round.

    He earned all pro status at the end of the season for his play with the Colts in their system, with their coaches and their schedule in that season. You are trying to claim that the Steelers knowingly passed on an All pro player for a weaker player. Wrong they passed on Leonard who was basically the same as Sutton Smith with more upside. They passed on a smaller sized outside linebacker who would need to move inside and chose an athletic safety that could play their subpackage football while learning the base formations.
     
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  18. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    My resistance is based on it being too soon to draw a final conclusion. One season rarely defines a career. Early returns say that Leonard would have been a better pick, but it’s premature to close the book.

    To be clear, I am not a defender of picking Edmunds. My wife can attest to how close my TV came to having a shoe thrown through its screen when his name was announced on draft night. However, what’s done is done, and the possibility exists that Edmunds will become a star. I’m not predicting that, but it is a possibility given his physical traits for the position.
     
  19. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    He was a good enough player to be an All-Pro as a rookie. Bostic was so bad the team benched him, then cut him loose. Fort is a scrub.

    The All-Pro honors were a reflection of his ability and production.

    I never once claimed the Steelers knowingly passed on an All-Pro for a weaker player. I'm sure they thought Edmunds was the better player. They were wrong. That is where they made the error.

    Leonard was clearly better than Sutton Smith. Leonard was a second-round pick who became an All-Pro as a rookie. Smith is a sixth-round pick who the team is already trying on offense because he lacks a true position at the pro level on defense.

    Please be sure you understand posts before responding to them. Thank you.
     
  20. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Leonard already is an All-Pro. It is very unlikely that Edmunds ends up being a better value. For one season, at least, the Steelers came out way behind.
     
  21. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Nothings been proven yet, just you being impatient trying to judge a draft pick on one season.

    Not making anything up, I've posted scouting reports, Mac added their rankings at their position, you have provided nothing. Back it up or stop accusing people of being dishonest and making things up. Put up or shut up.
     
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  22. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    While we are at it no I don't think an All pro would sit behind Bostic and scrubs like Fort and Matakavich. However a rookie outside linebacker from a small school changing position's yeah he would sit. I don't think Jerry O can teach a rookie to be the field general for a 3-4 defense in 5 weeks. I don't think he beats out two guys that have three years in the system or the guy signed to play next to Williams. I seriously don't think he shows enough in 5 weeks for Butler and Tomlin to make him a starter in week 1 and I don't think he garners all pro honors playing for the Steelers . So NO the rookie doesn't start over the three guys ahead of him.
     
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  23. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    I already have, but here's just one I found from Sports Illustrated. They had Leonard fairly low, but they didn't even have Edmunds among their top 100 players.

    https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/03/07/nfl-draft-top-prospects-big-board-top-100

    The blatant hypocrisy around here is funny. Draft rankings are meaningless if they support an opinion with which you disagree, say if they rated Edmunds as a third-rounder. If you think they might support your point, suddenly they become valid to you.

    Even if they were rated in an equal range, the Steelers still screwed up by passing on the All-Pro for the guy who isn't even close. Your claim that it made no sense to take Leonard there is clearly false.

    I don't have to make things up. I have the results from 2018 supporting my claim. All you have is constant attempts to move the goalposts because you don't like the facts.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019 at 3:15 PM
  24. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    That is your opinion, one that ignores that this isn't some rookie. This is a rookie who was good enough to earn All-Pro honors.
     
  25. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    :facepalm:
     
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