1. Hi Guest, Registrations are now open. See you on the inside.
    Dismiss Notice

Why does Edmunds seem like an afterthought?

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Jball, May 30, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

    4,839
    319
    Dec 18, 2016
    Of course, the entire league would have known about Stallworth if he was coming out of college now. The point of that example is to illustrate why it is a mistake to take a player too early even if he plays like a first-rounder.
     
  2. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

    1,638
    221
    Sep 4, 2017
    Not hard to understand in hindsight. You could argue over every draft pick a year later, doesn't make one right.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

    8,163
    926
    Nov 4, 2011
    If you’re saying that a team should guess where a player will be taken, and wait to pick him based on that guess, I disagree. That was all well and good when Bill Nunn was miles in front of the rest of the league in scouting players from the smaller African American colleges, but wouldn’t fly today. There are plenty of examples of players taken higher (and lower) than they were expected to go by the media. A simple example is Edmunds. If another team picking just ahead of us had him as their top remaining player, and passed on him thinking that they would be able to get him later, then they would have outsmarted themselves by waiting. Every team has plenty of information on several hundred prospects every year. If you love a guy, then you have to assume that at least one of the other 31 teams sees the same thing you see. If he’s next on your board, take him, don’t guess.

    If you want to argue that the Steelers overvalued Edmunds’ capability as a player and drafted him too high, that’s a subjective argument that will be proven right or wrong over the next few years. However, your argument that the Steelers blew it because they could have gotten him later is a bogus argument because it superimposes your judgment, or Mel Kiper’s et al judgment in place of 31 other teams’ judgment and says “nobody else would have taken him before our 2nd round pick because Mel and I say they wouldn’t have.” You, Mel or anyone else on the outside have no idea what 31 other teams would have done.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  4. jeh1856

    jeh1856

    8,398
    1,726
    Oct 26, 2011
    Edmunds was rated as a first round choice in at least one draft list that was put together by people with much more knowledge than Mel Kipper or any of his cronies.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

    18,870
    1,118
    Oct 22, 2011
    Just saying that looks like what they did. KC was also very in favor of tyler matakevich earning his way to a spot. He talked about him all off season. Mistakes are made in the draft by every team. I don't have a problem with our safties, at least our starters, but Marcus allen was a year scratcher for me. Not sure what in his game makes them think he will or can be our SS if Edmunds goes down. We need and needed speed back there and he adds nothing to the position I can see. JMO.:cool:
     
  6. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

    4,839
    319
    Dec 18, 2016
    Yeah, but that isn't the same thing as saying it was the wrong call at the time and having the first year's results show just how right you were in the first place. :)
     
  7. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

    4,839
    319
    Dec 18, 2016
    I'm saying a team has to balance a player's value to the team and where they think the player will be drafted. To ignore the latter is foolish.

    Also, I've made it very clear I'm not saying they definitely would have gotten Edmunds in the second round because that can't be proven either way. I am saying it is very likely and it was worth the risk to take the far superior Leonard in the first round and possibly get Edmunds in the second.
     
  8. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

    27,160
    2,260
    Oct 16, 2011
    Yes but that ignores the possibility that the Steelers had a 1st rd grade on him. In that case, waiting is reckless. I agree with Elvis' response 100%.

    Edmunds was thought to be the better prospect in the scouting reports I have seen. If anything, they may have been hoping to get Leonard in the 2nd while taking Edmunds in the first. Both positions were needed. I would have preferred that much more than Washington in the 2nd. I actually was not a fan of that draft. Their 2nd and two 3rd picks I felt they should have gone different positions.

    Anyway, at pick 28, 2nd rd grades are not much of a reach anyway. We'll never know what grade they had on him though.
     
  9. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

    4,839
    319
    Dec 18, 2016
    It's not reckless at all when you consider that they passed on a superior player to take him there. If you've got two guys with a first-round grade, you take the one less likely to last until your next pick. Clearly, the Steelers had Edmunds rated ahead of Leonard, which is where they screwed up.
     
  10. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

    1,638
    221
    Sep 4, 2017
    If Leanard was on the Steelers making allpro, then you would be right & everyone would bow down to your magnificent insight.
    Your argument is just bells & whistles, assuming that he would have been allpro on the Steelers.
    I for one think he would have sat behind Fort & Makavich before he displayed his 'greatness'.
    The Steelers should have took Lambert in the first round, what a mistake they made!!! lol. See how hindsight works?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

    1,221
    93
    Oct 23, 2011
    Teams never know how long a player will or won't last in the draft. The Steelers probably took the player/position they felt they needed more if they had the same grade on X,Y, and Z players regardless of position.

    I am not sure why people get so hung up on this draft nonsense when it happens to every team in the league. It's not the first time or last time something like this will happen to the Steelers and every team in the league.
     
  12. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

    4,839
    319
    Dec 18, 2016
    Your claims at this point are, at best, misleading. My argument is based in fact. Leonard earned All-Pro honors as a rookie. Edmunds was largely invisible and only started due to injury. Leonard was clearly the superior player. It's not even close.

    It's not hindsight when you say it the day of the draft, so please stop. I've corrected enough people about this, so I can't even generously say you are making a mistake. At this point, you are not being honest.

    You think two scrubs would have been enough to keep an All-Pro on the bench. You are entitled to cling to that opinion if you insist. I don't see how any reasonable person could agree.

    There is so much wrong with the last line of your post, but here goes. The correct phrasing would be should have taken, not should have took. My argument against drafting Edmunds in the first round last year isn't hindsight, as I've addressed many times. And most importantly, I worry for your judgement if you think the Steelers made a mistake passing on Lambert in 1974 given the benefit of hindsight. They were able to get him in the second round, allowing them to also get Hall of Fame wide receiver Lynn Swann in the first round that year. That draft is the perfect example of why it is incorrect to say taking Edmunds that high wasn't a reach if he eventually plays like a first-rounder. The point of the draft is to get as much value as possible. The Steelers did that with a level of success no team has ever matched in one draft in 1974 because they were smart enough to realize not just who they should draft, but when.

    I get that you were making an attempt at a joke/sarcasm with the Lambert comment, but you actually supported my point while writing something that is inarguably wrong. So I guess I'll just say thank you and suggest you put a little more thought into your next post.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 1
  13. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

    4,839
    319
    Dec 18, 2016
    I'm not so much hung up on it as people keep making a flawed argument rather than just conceding the point. Leonard is better than Edmunds. Both play positions the team needed going into 2018. The Steelers made a mistake. It's okay. All teams make them. It isn't necessary for the defenders of the pick to keep twisting themselves into knots over it.
     
  14. mcam

    mcam Well-Known Member

    1,730
    245
    Feb 5, 2017
    Yeah actually I didn't quote anyone on purpose lol. So I'm addressing the entire "should have drafted Leonard Colbert sucks" crowd lol.

    Yeah we should have. He's pretty bad azz. Seems like a good person too. Those sting a bit when they're missed. He'll be a perennial all pro IMO unless he gets injured. We got the Colts castaway in Bostic and they got him lol. Colts 1 Steelers 0
     
  15. groutbrook

    groutbrook

    2,608
    389
    Oct 23, 2016
    The Steelers missed the opportunity to draft an all pro linebacker. Nothing changes that fact.
     
  16. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

    4,176
    536
    Nov 18, 2015
    It's happened before. Remember Jevon Kearse? Steelers picked WR Troy Edwards and missed out on an all pro OLB/DE.

    I'm still holding out hope that Edmunds will turn out to be a good safety.
     
  17. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

    4,839
    319
    Dec 18, 2016
    We are all hoping Edmunds turns out to be a good player. Of course, missed picks happen. The only reason this discussion has been dragging out so long on so many threads is people who refuse to admit that the Steelers made a mistake this time.
     
  18. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

    8,163
    926
    Nov 4, 2011
    It’s happened to every NFL team - many, many times. That’s the nature of the draft.
     
  19. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

    4,839
    319
    Dec 18, 2016
    That's why I find it so surprising that there has been such resistance to accepting the idea that the Steelers botched that one.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  20. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

    4,176
    536
    Nov 18, 2015
    "Botch" is a strong word. Let's see how Edmunds' 2nd year pans out before we condemn the Steelers for another 1st round whiff.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  21. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

    4,839
    319
    Dec 18, 2016
    They had the opportunity to draft an All-Pro at a position of need. It already hurt the defense for one season. It also led them to paying a heavy price to move up for Bush. It was a mistake that has already had a significant impact.

    Even if Edmunds turns out to be a good player, botch is still the right word.
     
  22. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

    4,176
    536
    Nov 18, 2015
    If Johnson and Layne turn out to be solid contributors.. the price paid for Bush will be worth it. If those guys don't pan out... then yeah, it was a mistake. It's too early, IMO to throw Edmunds under the bus.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  23. groutbrook

    groutbrook

    2,608
    389
    Oct 23, 2016
    The one that always stood out the most to me (Steelers-wise) was taking Plaxico Burress instead of Brian Urlacher.
     
  24. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

    4,176
    536
    Nov 18, 2015
    Plax was a good player and needed badly at the time... but yeah. Urlacher would have been a badass in black and gold.
     
  25. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

    27,160
    2,260
    Oct 16, 2011
    Correct. They only will have botched it if Edmunds is a bust.

    Both players were at a position of need and Edmunds was the better prospect. Made no sense to take Leonard especially with the off season moves they had made. Leonard wasn't remotely a first rd prospect, no one talked him up as one.

    This whole debate has been highly subjective. The only thing that can be declared for a fact is that Leonard went on to have an All Pro season. Everything past that is what if's.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Welcome to the ultimate resource for Steelers fans. Sign Up Here!