Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Jball, May 30, 2019.
And after 16 more redundant posts I truly understand what you meant.
Hasn't made impactful plays.
Middle linebacker is more demanding than inside linebacker in a 3-4, not less. I wouldn't say transcendent, but clearly good enough that he could have been at or near the same level in the Steelers' defense. It is comical to suggest that Leonard isn't a vastly superior player to Edmunds, at least at this point in their careers.
Oh, and the way you brought up Thomas, it was absolutely a comparison.
Actually, it is part of the same argument be cause so many rankings had Edmunds as a third-round pick, there is a decent chance he would have made it to the Steelers in the second round. It's just a part of the argument I devote little time to because it's all guesswork.
So many? I've seen one that had a 3rd-4th rd grade from NFL.com. The rest I saw were rds 2-3, same as Leonard. I saw rd 4's on Leonard too.
If Edmunds is a reach, so was Leonard.
Every list I saw had Leonard higher, but sure, go with the All-Pro as a reach. I'll just leave that one to crumble on its own.
By all means please post some. I posted two scouting reports in this thread from Walter Football and Kiper. Both had each of them going in rounds 2-3 with Kiper indicating that Leonard could last till the 4th but no later. Also another breakdown by Steelers Deopt that said they wouldn't take Leonard until the 4th.
Only thing that will crumble is this house of cards you built for Leonard as some clear cut favorite over Edmunds. Not a single 1st rd grade on Leonard, had he been taken in the first, thats a reach by your argument against Edmunds. It's a reach that would have worked but still a reach.
Thats not my argument of course, if the Steelers had a 1st rd grade on Edmunds and his play goes on to reflect that, it's impossible to be a reach.
Very much so.
Actually, that isn't true. If they could have had him in the second or third round, it was a reach. Think back to the example of John Stallworth that I cited earlier. If you take a player earlier than you have to, even one who turns out to be great, it's a mistake because it costs you a more valuable player with the other pick. Chuck Noll wanted Stallworth in the first round, but was convinced by others in the organization that they could wait on him, but they could not wait on Lynn Swann. They did the smart thing and ended up with two Hall of Fame receivers instead of just one.
The rest of it is subjective, but there is no house of cards regarding what the Steelers should have done. They passed on an All-Pro for a lesser player. The rest is just noise from folks who for some reason can't admit the Steelers messed up with that pick.
Two of the top rated safeties had been picked. Three of the top ranked inside backers had been picked. Both were a position of need. We got the 3rd ranked safety over the 4th ranked inside backer. Leonard wasn't even picked in the first round. 35 other picks didn't know Leonard would be an all pro. The rankings you talk about didn't have Leonard as an all pro. We picked the higher ranked player at the time in a position that needed filled.
Screw the safety vs linebacker pick argument, why did the Steelers forego picking a safety in 2017? It was clearly a need..but I can see how they would have missed out on TJ Watt and Schuster so I am not complaining. But in the middle rounds? It's a tough subject to discuss because hindsight gets in the way. At draft time, you don't have that knowledge.
There's no way to grade him now. Sure the expectations are high. He's in his 2nd year now. This when young players are looked to become more impact players.
So the reason is we aren't playing football yet.
I'm 100 percent confident there will be either criticism or blame on his part. Probably a little of both.
I see Edmunds as being a viable starter with some big play ability. I'm not sure if he's going to be a star or not, but it's not like he was a top 15 pick so his expectations will be less than Devin Bush's
I didn't see it as big of a need as many on here. I said that on here a couple times pre-draft. I see both Edmunds and Sean Davis (who I believe isn't as bad as many portray on here) as viable starters. I see Edmunds as more comfortable in his role and answering the call.
I'm also looking more from Marcus Allen in various packages so seeing who we picked I'm happy. I think Layne is going to show to be a steal in the 3rd given a year to sit behind the starters and learn.
I'm talking about the draft BEFORE Edmunds. It was a safety deep class. And we didn't get a one. Time will tell if KC and company made the right decision in drafting two the NEXT year in Edmunds and Allen. I am "meh" on Edmunds right now. He has shown me absolutely zero for being a 1st rounder. But he will supposedly "grow" into the position. So SPARQ tells me. We will see. To me he is a first round pick place holder yet to earn his status. I will re-evaluate after this year for sure though. But I have doubts, honestly speaking.
We needed an olb at that point and tj was a good pick. The top safeties that year had been picked. I have little problem with that draft. We did pretty well. Tj, juju, conner.
Edmunds was only picked in the first round because the Steelers reached.
More importantly, that's a terrible argument. Just because a player is ranked higher among guys at his position doesn't mean he's a better player. Some years you're going to have five great linebackers and only two great safeties. (I'm not saying that was the ratio that season. I'm just giving an example.)
It's simple. The Steelers took the guy who was average at best as a rookie, only starting due to injury, over the guy who earned All-Pro honors as a rookie. It was the wrong call no matter how desperately y'all want to claim otherwise.
I have to agree with mac on this one. It is tough to criticize a draft when the first three picks have been as good as Watt, Smith-Schuster and Conner.
[QUOTE"turtle, post: 679775, member: 1401"]I'm talking about the draft BEFORE Edmunds. It was a safety deep class. And we didn't get a one. Time will tell if KC and company made the right decision in drafting two the NEXT year in Edmunds and Allen. I am "meh" on Edmunds right now. He has shown me absolutely zero for being a 1st rounder. But he will supposedly "grow" into the position. So SPARQ tells me. We will see. To me he is a first round pick place holder yet to earn his status. I will re-evaluate after this year for sure though. But I have doubts, honestly speaking.[/QUOTE]
wanted Derwin James sooooo bad. Should they have traded up last year or will Devin solve most of our midfield problems? I like Edmunds though.
I don't know why this is so hard to understand.
Oh my bad read too quick. It's always easier to look back in hind sight. Most 'experts' would suggest Edmunds was a reach for a need for the 1st, and I might have to agree but I do see him as coming along as a decent starter in this league who will make some big plays.
He won't be Polamalu but should be ok imo.
Regarding Darius Leonard, every team and expert analysis missed on him. The Colts were fortunate to get him in the second. Clearly he was a top 20 first ground grade if not top 10.
So yeah the Steelers missed him. So did everyone else though. I'm not running toward Colbert with pitchforks for missing him although it would have been pretty cool to have him at ILB.
I'm not calling for his head, either. I find his handling of this offseason far more egregious than simply missing on a player evaluation. I'm just saying it was a mistake and I'm still amazed that I've gotten so much push back on that statement.
Yes you can't argue with how those picks have turned out. But there was a huge need for S and they didn't get one, my concern is about why they didn't address the situation at all that draft. Most of us had TJ Watt mocked in the first, so that was great and OLB was a need. I thought for sure they would get a S in the 2nd or 3rd but they went offense. I'm glad they did as those two are great players, but I just wonder where their thinking was at. Another year of Mike Mitchell was tough to take. And not even a mid round selection at S in the 4th or 5th. They went with Dobbs (another offense pick) and Brian Allen who was and is a project as he was a positional convert to CB.
I loved the players they got that draft, I am just questioning why they bypassed S that year.
That is all fair. I never liked the Dobbs pick. I just gave them a little more slack because the top three selections were so good.
That was a great move by the Steelers but you'd never get away with that today, players are too well scouted, Stallworth would have been taken in the first easily if that was today, wouldn't have snuck by anyone.
Steelers make draft mistakes all the time, every team does, I have no problem admitting that but not after 1 season. Only thing proven so far is that Leonard had a better first season. And as others pointed out, that may not have been the case here. One of the things I am concerned about with Bush is if he will be put in the best situation to succeed.
If we are talking about taking other players, I agree with Elvis, would have taken Reid. Nobody else that was taken shortly after pic 28 jumped out at me and Reid lasted until the 3rd. Only reason he dropped was because of who his brother is.
I do think Edmunds is going to be a player though.