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Why does Edmunds seem like an afterthought?

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Jball, May 30, 2019.

  1. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Who said he won't get better? Seriously, I'm as big of a critic of Edmunds as anybody here and I certainly never posted that he wouldn't get better.

    Here's the thing. Leonard can get better, too.
     
  2. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    The Colts brought a coaching change that transformed a defense and Leonard benefited greatly from it. The whole attitude and aggressiveness of that defense changed. We are trying to transform a coaching staff and our players don't seem to be benefiting from that. We seem to be forcing picks to make it happen while not cutting off the head of mediocrity. We also keep bringing in position coaches to help transform a failed coordinator into a success. I can't blame our players for not playing at an all pro level in a confused system from the start. Jmo.:cool:
     
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  3. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    It's amazing the excuses people will come up with rather than admit the Steelers should have taken the All-Pro over the guy who was average at best.
     
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  4. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    Coulda, woulda, shoulda, us and 30 other teams. We could find all kind of these instances over the years but harping on them makes little sense after the fact. One fact though is the coaching change for the Colts was a major difference in their defense. They got a one year all pro middle linebacker, we needed and took a safety. :cool:
     
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  5. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Based on one season, sure but what if Edmunds goes onto have an All Pro season this year and Bush turns in a very good season. Should the Steelers still have taken Leonard then?
     
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  6. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Is Leonard still an All-Pro in your scenario? Then it looks better, but there is still a solid argument to be made for Leonard. They could have used the All-Pro last season and we have no idea what they could have gotten with that first-round pick and the second-rounder they had to send away in the Bush deal. Keep in mind, Bush cost them three picks, not one.

    By all means, bring it back up if your ...optimistic....scenario comes to pass. I hope you are right, but for now, the appropriate thing to do is work with the information we have. Based on the information we have right now, they passed on a superior player at one position of need to take an inferior one at another position of need. As of now, that mistake hurt the team in 2018 and forced them to trade three draft picks to find a player they hope might fill that void in the 2019 draft. Please note the word hope, because we really don't know what Bush will do as a pro yet.
     
  7. Rush2seven

    Rush2seven Well-Known Member

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    Bush > Leonard

    move forward
     
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  8. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    Based on what? Bush hasn't played a snap yet.
     
  9. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    :applaud:


    Seems to me the Edmunds detractors will use Devin Bush Jr. to vindicate Kevin Colbert for the "failed pick" that Terrell was. For that matter, this is reparation for not selecting Darius Leonard from a season ago. In all actuality, none of this should be talking points nor points of emphasis on Terrell anyway.



    What this SHOULD be about is Terrell taking the next step. Personally, I say he can. If he showcased improvement down the stretch in the second half of the season, with an NFL Offseason under his belt, there is no telling what he can do now.
     
  10. BK99

    BK99 Well-Known Member

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    When talking about Leonard vs. Edmunds you can say hindsight is always 20/20, every pick is a toss up really. The issue I'm having is going off of combine performance and SPARQ numbers rather than game tape when drafting a player. The combine has become an event so big that there are now coaches who work with these players so they put up impressive combine performances. Instead of studying formations and schemes they practice 40 yard dashes and agility drills and every years we see guys get drafted higher than expected off of those measurables.

    My take on the Edmunds vs. Leonard pick is that you can't compare apples to oranges, they play different positions with different coaches. Some players have a unique understanding of the game, others have immense physical gifts to overcome some game I.Q. deficiencies. Then you have the rest which fall somewhere in between but where they are drafted and how they perform gives a sense of how good a player actually is.

    Bud Dupree as a 2nd round pick we would be a bit disappointed but ok for depth, as a 3rd or 4th round we'd say he is proven depth and is a perfect backup, good pick. As a 1st round pick he is a total bust and I'm thinking Edmunds right now falls into this category. If he has a less than stellar sophomore season we will say he was a reach or a bad season and he'll be regulated to bust unless he picks it up by season 3. We just have to wait and see where the cards fall, me personally I see a Sean Davis 2.0 type player. Tremendous physical gifts with below average game I.Q. and in that position his physical abilities, while really good, aren't enough to compensate for game smarts.
     
  11. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    For the record, I'm Mr. Negative around here and in my opinion... Edmunds has shown more promise than J.Jones, Dupree or Burns ever did.
     
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  12. Rush2seven

    Rush2seven Well-Known Member

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    I’m not an Edmunds’ detractor. What I am is a fan of the Steelers who is excited to see what Bush brings to the field.

    Edmunds is not Troy. He never will be. And to some, they cannot accept that. IMHO, Edmunds will have a better year. I also believe there is potential for Nelson and Layne to improve the secondary.

    Edmunds had the second most tackles, not because of his faults, but because of the 9 in front of him. I’m excited for Bush to change the vector of this defense, for Watt to continue to improve, for the line to solidify, and for the offense to run the ball more.
     
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  13. Rush2seven

    Rush2seven Well-Known Member

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    Potential
     
  14. Jball

    Jball Well-Known Member

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    This is sort of my point. You say you're not a detractor yet you're sure he'll never be Troy. And of course, chances are, he probably won't be. But at this point there's no reason to believe that he couldn't be. He has all the physical tools. He's a great athlete. Troy didn't exactly light the world on fire his rookie season.
    This was my point of this post. Based on not much info, most of which would probably be considered positive, expectations of this 1st rounder seem to be just above hoping he doesn't spike himself in the bag. Just wondering if the whole reason is because he was drafted a round too high.
    I'm not singling you out btw, you just kinda summed it up.
     
  15. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Even the Colts didn't know Leonard would be a All-Pro his rookie season :shrug:, such a asinine statement.
     
  16. Rush2seven

    Rush2seven Well-Known Member

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    If that was your point, then my bad for missing it. I try not to participate in the back and forth that some do.

    My post about Bush and Leonard was forward thinking. Frankly I have as much interest in litigating the 2018 draft as I do the 1983 draft. People can say whatever they want but we’ll never know.

    I join your optimism, and would be perfectly happy if Edmunds matches TP’s career stats and overall prowess.
     
  17. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    I was just legitimately curious if you would still think the Steelers should have taken Leonard if they end up with two very good to great players in Bush and Edmunds.

    Bush I have no idea what to expect and just hope he is the player the Steelers moved up to get and Edmunds I think will be a great player based on his skills and performance in his rookie year.

    If it pans out the way I am hoping, then I absolutely think the Steelers made the right selections.

    My point is, you have to let this play out, one season a career does not make.
     
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  18. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    [​IMG]
     
  19. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Actually, it absolutely should be part of the discussion because it is relevant. The Steelers had the opportunity to address their need at inside linebacker with a player who earned All-Pro honors as a rookie, but they chose to reach for Edmunds instead. That not only brought in a lesser player, it left them with a desperate need on defense and they traded three draft picks to acquire a player to fix it.

    The cost of Devin Bush is absolutely relevant to the discussion, as is the success of Leonard. I was more than happy to just have a little fun with the subject, but you and others couldn't just let it go, so we're engaged in the debate again.

    I do expect Edmunds to improve. Hopefully, he can at least be a solid starter at safety. Just because I think the Steelers made the wrong call there doesn't mean I don't think he can be a good player.
     
  20. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    My point is, we can talk about it now, too.

    Also, in the case of Edmunds and Bush, we are entirely talking about hope. In the case of Leonard, he's already playing on the level you are hoping we could see someday from Edmunds and Bush.

    It's not like it was a choice of Leonard or Edmunds and Bush. If they had taken Leonard, in place of Bush they would have had picks in the first and second round this year and a third-rounder in 2020.

    The way Bush is relevant is that he came at a very high price, those three draft picks, and that wouldn't have been necessary if they had taken Leonard last year.
     
  21. SteelerJJ

    SteelerJJ Well-Known Member

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    I have seen a lot of good Steelers playes that looked average at best early on. It's just too early to grade the Edmunds pick.
     
  22. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    It's a grade in progress, not a final grade.
     
  23. LoneGranger

    LoneGranger Well-Known Member

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    He is old news. The sports story witers want new stories to bump up ad clicks.



     
  24. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    Whole post is hearsay. Fits your argument to a tee. What if Leonard didn't see the field last year as a Steeler? What if the Steelers moved up this year to draft a safety in your alternate universe with Leonard as our savior? You are STILL confusing reality with your dream linebacker playing as a allpro on the Steelers.
     
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  25. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Leonard earned All-Pro honors as a rookie. You don't think he could crack the starting lineup on a team that gave starts to Matakevich and Fort last season? If you want to kid yourself to justify a mistake by the Steelers, that is your error. I'm not interested in indulging such lack of logic.

    He's not my dream linebacker, but he's an All-Pro at a position the Steelers badly needed to fill last year and didn't.

    I'm not confusing anything. The reality is that Leonard was an All-Pro and Edmunds only started due to injury and didn't play particularly well.

    Also, hearsay is information based on rumor, as in something heard from others. That's not at all what this is. If you want to claim that it's subjective or just an educated guess, fine. You would still be wrong, but it would at least be wrong in a reasonable way. But it is not hearsay.
     

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