Why does Colbert get a pass here?

This is a good point that often gets overlooked regarding the line. They really liked Banner based on what he had done at the previous camp by all accounts, and Decastro has been a top 5 guard in the league his whole career. Injuries played havoc with their initial plans.

They definitely dropped the ball at Center however. It was a massive gamble thinking Green could hold that spot down

 

That's Me.....Fire ,and Brimstone. Most say I have Black,and Gold glasses. My 5 years was a mistake. I humbly apologize for. So .....4 years.
What You are skipping over is what I tried 2 get 2 is they will be Here for their original contract whether they suck ,or not. Since this current Steelers have been in control. Not all teams do this. They say....they suck. Therefore Let's get better....We say .....Well We spent a 1st round on them .....surely We can use them for something.

 

Colbert did a decent job of putting the team together considering the salary cap was cut 16 million this year, they had good depth on the DL until Alalu got injured and Tuitt missed the season. At the time the Ingram signing was good, he was going to backup both OLB spots, and the WR group was solid until JuJu got injured. The biggest criticism for KC would be the OL additions.

 

I think the distinction of skipping over things here goes to you. You're using an extremely small data set to make a conclusive statement, yet are dismissing some of the finer points within that data if it contradicts your conclusion. From a previous reply:

Well, two guys that come to straight to mind here are Justin Layne and Mason Rudolph. Both third round picks. Neither is receiving any accolades for production or performance. Both are still on the roster. According to your theory, shouldn't they have been replaced? If you're speaking solely to starting roles, I showed above that Hood and Jones both lost theirs in their final years. Still, Okafor was a third rounder in 2018. After a poor training camp and preseason this summer, he was replaced at LT by a fourth-round rookie and moved back to RT where he has continued to struggle, currently owning the most false start/holding penalties of anyone on the offensive line. Why hasn't he been replaced?

Shifting back to first rounders, take Artie Burns. He was still on the team in the fourth year of his contract (2019), but not as a starter. The Steelers kept six corners on the roster that year, and Burns was behind Nelson on the depth chart. Haden was the #1, with Layne backing him up. So at best Burns was the #4, but an argument could be made he was closer to the #6, as they had Hilton as the starter in the slot, with Sutton backing him up. Referring back to another of your quotes:

Okay, so if Burns was sixth on the depth chart in 2019, who got bumped off the roster that was that much better? Burns was behind Justin Layne. If you're a first round CB and three years later find yourself behind Layne on the depth chart, I think you can conclude the honeymoon is over. Jarvis Jones began 2016 as the starting LOLB (Harrison behind him), but was out of that role by week 10, after which the Steelers won their last seven games to close out the season. And drafting Cam Heyward while Ziggy Hood is still on the roster presents a paradox to any theory that the first rounder gets the start by default.

All I'm saying is that there are more dynamics to consider in explaining why a draftee may be kept through the entirety of his rookie contract. Do the Steelers occasionally favor first round picks in certain decisions? Sure. Every team does that. But I don't see any evidence to suggest the Steelers do so significantly more than the rest of the league.

 

I don't even know what we are arguing about anymore. LoL.
Mason is on the bench not starting. I said if they pick a guy 1st round He will see the field whether ,or not someone is better. I don't believe Mason is Seeing the field if Someone better is playing. Yes I have skipped over stuff You are talking about ....that I was not even pertaining 2. No need for this. I said Hood,T. Edmunds, and J. Jones as examples. All 3 sucked yet continued 2 get playing time when if they were not 1st round picks they would have tried something else.
I'm done with this really. Not as a slight 2 You , but I'm bored with it. Also the bringing up of people, and times I wasn't even referring 2. Also drafting a Guy in a position that has more than one spot that can be played in that position means nothing. Even after Heyward was drafted how long was Hood still starting????
Exactly
I see teams do it all the time. I could make a list from Qbs - Kickers. How many are let go before there 4 th year, or are riding the bench.
I just think it's silly 2 keep playing someone that 1. Doesn't fit Your system, or 2. Wasn't any good. You have one example that actually fits this discussion.... Burns

 

Nope, it was Tomlins fault.

 

Mason is still today a good selection in the 3rd round for a backup QB.

Here are all of the QBs taken in the 1st round that year.

• Baker Mayfield: No. 1 to the Browns.
• Sam Darnold: No. 3 to the Jets. ...
• Josh Allen: No. 7 to the Bills. ...
• Josh Rosen: No. 10 to the Cardinals. ...
• Lamar Jackson: No. 32 to the Ravens. ...

Mason was then selected in the 3rd round by the Steelers after no QBs went in the 2nd round.

 

Come on, man. Your "argument" here is little more than an ill-informed belief. Nothing wrong with having those, but at least state it that way. To come back and say "I'm bored", or lampoon the data I took the time to present so we could be looking at the same thing (and, yes, consisted of me having to present additional info/angles because of some hazy clarity on your part) is a slap in the face, and not typically your style.

So you think Hood makes your case that all first rounders see field whether or not someone is better? The same Hood that only started seven games his last year with the team? You think he blocked Cam? The same Cam that became a starter in the third week of 2013 (Hood's final year)? Or is it Jones? The same Jones that was relegated to a backup role in week 10 of his final year? Edmunds actually gives you an example of somebody that has remained a starter throughout. But which significantly better player is riding the pine in favor of him, Killebrew?

And as for your list of players that were released/benched before the end of their rookie contract, well, you don't have to look far for examples of those benched; I just gave you some in Hood, Jones, and Burns. As for those released, I'm sure you can find a list of examples, just like I can find a list of busts that didn't get released.

So you're basically presenting three guys over 15 years' worth of first round picks - two of whom lost their starting roles prior to the end of their contract - that you claim show a pattern of the Steelers allowing subpar first round picks to keep better players on the bench. I think the Arizona climate may be messing with your judgement here. Either way, we may have to agree to disagree on this one, my friend.

 

Of course I'm only bringing up 3. I don't think all our 1st round picks sucked. Why would I bring them up????? I'm talking about guys that should have been gone.
At no time did I say all our 1st round picks sucked. Some of what You bring up confuses Me Why you are even mentioning some of things You are .
A lot isn't even on topic, but I like 2 fish. How about You .

 

I think I've got more respect for you than to suggest you think all our first round picks sucked. No, the reason I brought up there only being three is because of your statement that the Steelers "always" do this with first rounders - and by 'this' you appear to mean the refusal to accept that they "suck" and always find them to the field no matter what, potentially leaving better players on the bench.

Even if we accept your premise of 'this' as accurate for now with respect to Hood, Jones, and Edmunds, in the end you are still talking about three times an event has occurred. Even if it was three years in a row (Hood, then Jones, then Edmunds) I would have a hard time assigning the term "always" to the behavior. If Najee Harris has three straight runs of over 10 yards to close out the first quarter against the Browns this week, I wouldn't claim he "always" gains positive yardage, or that the running game was now fixed. There are simply other factors to consider within small samples. So your initial statement, on its face, draws skepticism from me.

But there was also your lack of clarity. You said that "they" always do this with first round picks when speaking to your fear of getting stuck with "five years of suck" if they drafted a QB. You quickly corrected me for going outside of four years despite you stating five. Then I was corrected that it was only about Tomlin's years, despite you only saying "they." So after some back and forth in which you continued to chide me for arguing your point, when at first I was only trying to clarify what the hell you were talking about, and who, it seemed you were indicating Hood, Jones, Burns, and Edmunds. Okay. So we had four examples over 15 years of guys where the Steelers (with Tomlin) had failed to recognize first rounders who were busts, and made sure they saw the field no matter what.

I then showed that Hood, Jones, and Burns all were relegated to bench duty by the end of their rookie contracts. The only one you seemed to accept was Burns, so you dropped him from your argument. I asked who the better players were that were snubbed. You finally indicated Cam behind Hood, and acted like that proved your whole argument, even thought the truth is he unseated Hood at LDE by the third game of 2013, and you've mentioned no one else behind the other players.

 

I didn't correct You from the 5 years. At least I thought I didn't. It was My bad. I was correcting Myself. I was wrong . I freely admit so. I was meaning the required years that come with a 1st rounder. When You say bench duty. Burns is the only one I can remember this for.

 

Nah, don't worry about it, you're good. My mood has definitely been strained over the last month due to some family health concerns, so I'm sure I'm about as pleasant lately as @jeh1856 after some kids just got done trampling on his front lawn.

Speaking of the organization's recent drafts, one thing that sticks out to me is the amount of draft capital they've spent on running backs, especially when compared to the offensive line. If you count Samuels (listed as TE in the draft, converted to RB), over the past five years the team has spent 1 third, 1 fifth, 2 fourths, and 1 first round pick on running backs. Over the same timeframe they've spent 1 third (Chuks), 1 seventh (Derwin Gray), 2 fourths (Dotson and Moore), and 1 third (Green) on the offensive line. That's nowhere near balanced, and it's not they were exactly stacked at OL going into 2017. Here's their OL picks from 2012-2016, all of whom not named DeCastro were gone by the end of the 2016 season:

2016: Jerald Hawkins, 4th (kept for one season, appeared in five games)
2014: Wesley Johnson, 5th (one season, two games)
2012: DeCastro, 1st; Adams, 2nd; Beachum, 7th With this bunch, Adams stuck around for three years and Beachum, who was solid, was kept four, but not re-signed after that.

Hindsight is 20/20, but the lack of impact talent in those selected coupled with Ben's increasing age make it very strange they didn't show more urgency in addressing this group. The best way to help any QB, let alone an aging one (and his successor), is to provide a line that takes pressure off by opening running lanes, while giving time to throw when needed. Ben was probably happy to just keep throwing his way out of things, but it's the FO's job to ensure the stability of the foundational portions of the roster. The OL is a big one, and IMO, they turned their back on it.

 

Sorry to hear about the Family health concerns. Truly. We all can be grumpy at times. Best of Wishes , and Take Care