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Why does Colbert get a pass here?

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by SteelRaj, Dec 27, 2021.

  1. Master Of Puppets

    Master Of Puppets Well-Known Member

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    nope..he didnt make it 3 full seasons, but he did actually request they release him.
     
  2. DukeDukeDaDaDa

    DukeDukeDaDaDa Well-Known Member

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    You know damn well the Steelers would have
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. Rel

    Rel Well-Known Member

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    You have to understand what fans are like. If rounds 2-7 were all pro bowlers but round 1 was a bust he should be fired.
     
  4. Rel

    Rel Well-Known Member

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    Not if he didn't want to be here, which is what Taco did in Dallas.
     
  5. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    I think any pick that turns into a solid starter is a good pick. Edmunds will be on another team next year probably why he is playing well XD
     
  6. Kreighoff

    Kreighoff Well-Known Member

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    First rd picks should be starters at some point in yr one and impact players by yr two. They are the best 32 players in college football.
    2nd and 3rd round players should be good enough to play in relief or on special teams , then they should be starters by year three in most positions.

    As mentioned above some recent reaches has put this team behind the eight ball. Most on here would rate Edmunds as serviceable not terrible not good just a starter, that was a bad reach with a first rd pick. Burns and Sean Davis were projects that didn t work out because we do not have a history of developing DB's , poor positional coaches.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    Edmunds is still this unpopular huh? He has improved a lot as a player. The Steelers are going to regret trying to replace him with so many other holes to fill- it is a mistake.

    24 of 32 players drafted in the 2nd round of 2018 did not start all 4 seasons like Edmunds. It wasn't that strong a draft. But wait... you said 2nd round drafted players are starters? That is not reality. 8 players in Edmunds class taken in the 2nd never started a single season.

    The only glaring miss of players in the 2nd the Steelers could have drafted in the first was Darius Leonard. Would have been way better than Edmunds. That's it.

    You guys got to pick the best GM because I guarantee half their picks never become starters.
     
  8. Thor

    Thor

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    This isn't really true, though. Go back to 2000, and here are the first rounders:

    2000: Burress
    2001: Hampton
    2002: Simmons
    2003: Polomalu
    2004: Roethlisberger
    2005: Miller
    2006: Holmes
    2007: Timmons
    2008: Mendenhall
    2009: Hood
    2010: Pouncey
    2011: Heyward
    2012: DeCastro
    2013: Jones
    2014: Shazier
    2015: Dupree
    2016: Burns
    2017: Watt
    2018: Edmunds
    2019: Bush
    2020: --
    2021: Harris

    I'm going to guess the consensus would label the 'suck' picks as Hood, Jones, Burns, Edmunds, and (as of 2021) Bush. Of those who have qualified, only Hood played a fifth year with the Steelers. And currently the prospect of a fifth year appears questionable at best for Edmunds (fifth year option declined), and Bush (poor 2021; option appears unlikely).

    Steeler-specific notes for the group:

    Hood
    • Debatable whether he was actually a poor player, more a bad fit for the Steelers 3-4 scheme
    • Played in 90 games, starting 46
    • In his fifth year he played in all 16 games, but started only 7
    Jones
    • In four years he appeared in 50 games, starting 35
    • In his final season he appeared in 14 games, started only 7
    Burns
    • In four years he appeared in 58 games, starting 32
    • In his third year he appeared in 16 games, started only 6
    • In his final year he appeared in 10 games, started only 1
    Edmunds
    • Polarizing player, due to the majority of draft analysts listing him as a late-second / third round prospect. More average to slightly below than poor player, he was a very poor value taken 28th overall.
    • Appeared in 47 games over his first three years, starting 43
    • Fifth year option was declined in 2021 offseason
    • Thus far in his fourth year he has appeared and started all 15 games
    Bush
    • Another controversial pick due to draft value after the Steelers traded their second round pick in order to move up to 1.10 to land him
    • Appeared in 16 games as a rookie, starting 15
    • Appeared and started 5 games in second year until tearing ACL
    • Appeared and started in 13 of 15 games in 2021
    Another factor that can come into play is guaranteed money. On top of their signing bonus, many first round picks have the majority of their base salaries/roster bonuses guaranteed. Typically the prorated bonus dollars are a greater hit each year (especially for picks inside the top ten), but it's still a consideration for teams, especially if there isn't someone who is demonstrably better already on the roster.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2021
  9. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    Not talking about 5th year options. I'm talking about the forsure 4.
    Also I'm not talking about this team before this current Head coach. I have only had one problem with Tomlin. If We draft You in the 1st you will play whether You deserve 2 or not, and longer than many should. Examples Hood, J. Jones, and T Edmunds. If any of these guys had been 3rd round picks....instead of 1st.....different players would already have taken their places, and I'm not just talking about a play ,or game here , there.
     
  10. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    How much hate mail do you send Edmunds? Like what is an average week for you? Hahaha
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 1
  11. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    Popular has nothing 2 do with it. Also just because a player gets picked up by another team if We let him go means nothing.
    J. Jones got picked up by another team. Did that make Him good??? Hell we could spend all day talking about suck A$$ players that get picked up by other teams. LoL.
    You keep saying Edmunds is solid. Have You done like I asked. Just pick a game this Year. Since He's so improved this Year, and Don't watch the game ....just Him. It's nothing physical. It's all mentally.
    I can't count how many bad angles, knocking His own players out of the play..., double cover( sometimes triple covering a guy, and leave His wide open, going the opposite way with the flow of the play while His team ,and the other team are going the other way.
    I don't know if I have seen a player yelled at by His own team on the field after a play ...as much as I have seen them do it 2 Edmunds.
    Just do what I ask,and comeback, and tell Me what You've seen.
     
  12. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    None. He's a Steeler. I will always root for Him as long as He wears the Black and Gold.
    Matter of fact I stopped bringing Him up till You talked about How good He was. I got tired of :beathorse: last year.
     
  13. DukeDukeDaDaDa

    DukeDukeDaDaDa Well-Known Member

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    What if we signed Lamar Jackson? :smiley1:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    I would Hate it, but after a offseason of disgust....LoL. I would pray that He learned 2 read a D, play from the pocket, only run when necessary, I would Buy His Jersey, and root for Him.:thumbs_up:
    Please don't make Me have 2 do all that. LoL.
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 1
  15. AtlSteel

    AtlSteel Well-Known Member

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    No thanks. We have more than enough stupid.
     
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  16. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    Daniel Sorenson is yelled at more. XD

    Edmunds has gotten better every year. I'm not saying he was a genius draft pick but I did show his draft year wasn't a great class.

    I would have taken Lamar Jackson not knowing he would choke in the playoffs, and despite thinking he would be injured often.

    Getting rid of Edmunds is fine as long as they don't spend a draft pick to replace him.

    Remember the person I initially responded to called Edmunds, Bush, Shazier etc. "nothing."

    Edmunds is good enough to start in the NFL for several more years. He doesn't have ball skills but he is fairly versatile. He is put in man coverage on slot receivers, plays at the line etc.

    I get your grudge. He was much worse his first two seasons. I had a grudge against Dupree. I get it. I still had to agree with by B-I-L that we were better with Dupree than without. I think you will be in the same place next year.
     
  17. Vox Ferrum

    Vox Ferrum Well-Known Member

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  18. Vox Ferrum

    Vox Ferrum Well-Known Member

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    I keep hearing about this plan of QB succession. Sure a few teams may have done something, but few also have any success doing it. Green Bay lucked into Rodgers. San Fran paid a very high price to get an unproven guy. The Rams have a very short window with Stafford and have traded away a lot of future picks for that short window. History shows us 50 to 60 per cent of 1st round QBs are busts or never live up to their billing. Or you can play FA bingo and invest your future cap hell in a QB. I am not happy with the way they handled Ben in his last huge contract, but to suggest there are QBs out there, when imo half the teams lack a quality starter is ridiculous. I do agree on OL however. The lack of development in these guys is putrid. Coaching, scheme., talent???? The last 3 years at least this OL has stunk up the league.
     
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  19. steelersrock151

    steelersrock151 Well-Known Member

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  20. Master Of Puppets

    Master Of Puppets Well-Known Member

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    andy reed didnt sit around and wait for alex smith to break down. he identified the guy he wanted and went up and got him. the packers went back to the well again for love despite have rodgers for 2 more years. . trying and failing is one thing. not even trying is another. the rams are in the "win now" window. they felt they were a QB upgrade away. its called being proactive. i fix sh*t all the time that isnt broken, because i know its just a matter of time. just replaced a ten year old water heater that was still functioning fine. i have seen the mess a blown water heat can make. mine is in a finished basement i'd prefer not to be flooded. :shrug:
    if i were a coach i'd make it a priority to have a solid number 2 qb, even if i have to bring in new guys to audition for the job. i wouldnt stand pat on a guy just because he knows the playbook.

    the steelers are not in position to "win now" with just a QB upgrade so it wouldnt make sense to spend resources on an older QB .besides im sure when the rumors about rodgers started , he looked at our roster and thought " not a chance in hell".
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2021
  21. Thor

    Thor

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    1. I presented five-year rookie contracts because above you said "5 years of suck" when referring to your fears of drafting a QB that doesn't work out. Now you're saying you're only concerned about the first four years. Okay.
    2. I provided picks all the way back to 2000 simply for a larger pool of data (you only identified "they" as the offenders, so I thought you meant the organization, not a singular, as in Tomlin), and 2000 was just an easy starting point. Technically, if we're talking about first rounders starting every game by default over their first four years we can't really include anyone past 2018 (Edmunds). Similarly, even if looking strictly at Tomlin era strategy one could include 2004 (Ben) on, as their fourth years fell under Tomlin's watch, but whatever. It has no bearing either way because all the players i presented were all picked during Tomlin's tenure. So you're introducing a distinction you never made, but it has no bearing on what was presented.
    3. Regarding the players that were mentioned, all three that played their rookie contracts out started less than 50% of the games they appeared in during their final year(s), and two of three appeared in less than 16 games. This goes directly against what you're saying happens. But you're waving it away with "I'm not just talking about a play, or game here, there." Well, what's the magic number of games a drafted rookie can play before officially getting default starts because of their status as a first round pick in your eyes? I'd like to know so I don't waste more of my time putting together data that you immediately dismiss because it doesn't fit a narrative whose parameters you don't fully disclose until said data doesn't support it.
    I don't mean to come off over the top; I've always enjoyed interacting with you here. But your posts typically carry a good amount of levity. Some lately seem forged more by fire and brimstone. I'm simply providing data that suggests alternative explanations aside from it simply being all first rounders start all their games no matter what.
     
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  22. Brice

    Brice Well-Known Member

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    There is no telling what our offensive line would have looked like with a healthy Decastro and Banner.

    If Colbert would have known that both Decastro and Banner would be out for the season there is no telling what the 2021 draft would have looked like.

    Like I said earlier his biggest mistake this offseason was not even attempting to sit down with Steven Nelson and talk to him.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  23. Brice

    Brice Well-Known Member

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    I am assuming you are not talking about the QB position? Like Aaron Rodgers.
     
  24. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    The league reducing the salary cap by 16 million this season really screwed the Steelers.
     
  25. Vox Ferrum

    Vox Ferrum Well-Known Member

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