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Why does Colbert get a pass here?

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by SteelRaj, Dec 27, 2021.

  1. SteelRaj

    SteelRaj Active Member

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    Thread after thread calling for Tomlin to go, but who created this dumpster fire of a lineup? Belichick wouldn’t be able to take this team to the promise land either. I’m not saying Tomlin is elite, but I think the roster is the biggest problem. And taking Najee first in the draft was beyond stupid. He will be great but so many other positions were higher need.
     
  2. Master Of Puppets

    Master Of Puppets Well-Known Member

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    the 1st 2nd and 3rd round misses the last decade and poor salary cap management are the reason the team is so void of talent.
    colbert had a nice run his first decade or so but has been wiffing badly lately. artie burns ? jarvis jones ? terrel edmunds ? none of those guys should have been 1st round picks.

    i had to prove on another message board that colbert wasnt the draft god everybody thinks he is. i put all his successful picks and busts into categories by rounds and the percentages of hit and misses.. most of them were shocked by my evidence. people have created this image of colbert as the guy that always scores these late round gems. those finds are a very very low percentage of his picks.
    look at our 2018 draft. not a quality starter among them let alone long term contributor. if edmunds was a 3rd round pick i would say he was a good pick.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2021
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  3. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Who is giving Colbert a pass?! Again, a comment I had from another thread;


    Terrell Edmunds (I understand the vitriol he attracts but given the fact that Kyle Hamilton is Edmunds' only viable replacement, expect the Steelers to sign him long term; liked or otherwise)


    Diontae Johnson (He is the team's number one receiver. That said, he is hamstrung by not just his QB but his OC).



    *** Chase Claypool (On the fence about him. A bounce back season in 2022 is all but necessary at this point. Otherwise, he is gone.) ***


    Alex Highsmith (He needs to be more consistent but has shown he can contribute. How much of an impact though remains to be seen.)


    Najee Harris (No explanation on him)


    Pat Freiermuth (See Najee Harris explanation)



    *** Isaiah Loudermilk (Too early to tell but he has gotten better as the year has progressed) ***






    This list is players drafted from 2018 to present. Realistically, this is more or less of what the team has acquired in four years time. Not good by any stretch.



    2021 technically speaking is still too soon to tell but neither Moore Jr or Green look like solutions to problems. Not to say they should be given up upon after one season.... just something to monitor; doubly so in Green's case.
     
  4. KMM

    KMM Well-Known Member

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    Beyond the first rounders, spending two picks on strictly special teams players is ridiculous.

    He and Tomlin should share equal blame for the roster, since by all accounts they jointly decide on these matters. Their biggest sin, though, was not having a good succession plan in place for either the OL or the QB.
     
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  5. troybellringer55

    troybellringer55 Well-Known Member

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    Colbert is year to year, he may just be done as well with Big Ben being done.

    But, I wouldn't bash Kevin Colbert too much.

    21 years at the helm and the Steelers have had one losing season in 2003 (this year is still up in the air)

    2 Super Bowl wins and 3 appearances.

    Yes the last 10 years have been a good bit of let downs. But Kevin Colbert made the Steelers a better franchise since he came on board.

    Its not easy to retain and keep a GM or Executive job for an NFL club for over two decades even with a loyal owner(s)
     
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  6. Master Of Puppets

    Master Of Puppets Well-Known Member

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    you will get no disagreement from me. stevie wonder could see our problems we have now coming from 3 years ago. the first and biggest mistake was giving Ben an extension. pouncy was clearly showing decline 3 years before his departure. they did the same dumb sh*t when they extended ramone foster... yep he sucked the last 2 years so maybe he will get better if we give him another few years.:facepalm:
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2021
  7. Master Of Puppets

    Master Of Puppets Well-Known Member

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    oh colbert was in the zone his 1st ten years...all net...but just like with any gambler sooner or later your luck runs out. i would be curious to see how his scout teams changed over his career to see if their is a correlation.
     
  8. biggbunch68

    biggbunch68

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    God help us when Roonie has to hire the next GM,
     
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  9. JAD

    JAD Well-Known Member

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    Rumor in Jacksonville is that he is a possibility for GM in Jax.
     
  10. KMM

    KMM Well-Known Member

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    Given how they like to promote internally you would think Omar Khan would be under consideration.
     
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  11. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    Probably.
     
  12. biggbunch68

    biggbunch68

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    I thought Khan got a GM job somewhere last year ,or the year b4
     
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  13. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    Colbert’s body of work across his career is very very good, he has been one of the better GM’s in the league.

    Since 2015 the Steelers have not drafted especially well however, apart from one notable year in 2017 when they drafted Watt, Juju, Conner & Sutton.

    Colbert’s recent record in the draft isn’t great and it’s showing in the lack of depth across the roster. Most of the free agent moves in the recent past have been a bit iffy too.

    I’d qualify by saying that very few if any teams nail the draft consistently, there are just so many variables and reasons players can fail between injury, scheme, personalities etc. It’s impossible to get it right all the time.

    I did not like their 2021 offseason between the draft and free agency and would have preferred if they had prioritised the OLine and Secondary more, albeit I like the guys they did take in Najee and Freiermuth
     
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  14. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Their next GM might be already with the team in Brandon Hunt.
     
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  15. Brice

    Brice Well-Known Member

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    His handling of Nelson this offseason was a disaster. Why not sit down with the guy and talk?

    BTW. Nelson currently ranked as the 7th best cb in the league by PFF.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2021
  16. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    Which GM scores "late round gems"? Who thinks Colbert is a "draft god"?

    In the 2019 draft all non kickers selected after the 2nd round combined for 1 Pro Bowl appearance; in 2018 4; in 2020 1. Not many "gems."
     
  17. The Sodfather

    The Sodfather Well-Known Member

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    Colbert doesn't get a pass AFAIC. I think he needs to go.
     
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  18. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Why wait for Colbert to retire? The Ben era is over. Need a younger GM and HC to find, develop, support and the see the next QB through.

    It's not going to happen. The Steelers will replace the GM and HC a couple years into the next QB's career.
     
  19. nor

    nor Well-Known Member

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    My initial gut feeling is that Colbert is actually the best GM in the NFL. and has been except for maybe Ozzie Newsome in Baltimore.

    But that is a good question. So I did some research. To compare apples to apples, let's crunch some numbers to see what teams are drafting around the same position so we can fairly compare their drafts with the steelers drafts. That will tell us if Colbert is doing a good job.

    I looked at the drafts from 2016-2021 for four teams that drafted about in the low 20s each year.

    Average draft position for each of the first three rounds over those years.

    Steelers average draft position was 22.8

    Ravens average draft position was 23.5

    Vikings average draft position was 21.4

    Packers average draft position was 20.3


    Let’s attempt to answer ‘are the steelers drafting good players?’ and

    ‘are the other teams drafting around our position doing any better?’


    What is the standard for ‘drafting a good player’. Do you mean one coming into the NFL good? Or one who produced well once in the NFL?


    I’ll tackle the first question in this post. The standard I used for a player entering the NFL ‘good’ was ‘Was he named to the First Team of his College Conference?’ (or named All American)

    Pittsburgh had 12 players drafted in Rounds 1-3 since 2016 draft named to their college conference First Team

    Baltimore had 15 players drafted in Rounds 1-3 since 2016 draft named to their college conference First Team

    Minnesota had 14 players….

    Green Bay had 11 players….


    Pittsburgh is drafting slightly fewer than average First Team college players. Who are the guys that we drafted that didn’t get named First Team? Claypool, Layne, Edmunds, Rudolph, Sutton, burns, davis, Hargrave. The list would get a few more if we looked at draft years 2013-2015 which would be guys like golson, coates, archer Jarvis jones and wheaton.


    I’ll let the analysis to you guys for now. Next post I will look at the second standard of was a player ‘good’ by looking at what drafted players did once they got in the NFL.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2021
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  20. nor

    nor Well-Known Member

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    Again, personally, my initial gut feeling is that Colbert was the best in the NFL except for perhaps Ozzie Newsome of the Ravens.


    And that’s for drafting, paying and keeping the right ones. Except for Hargrave I can’t think of any one we let walk that I’d want back.

    My point being, considering where we draft each year, I think Colbert is doing well.


    Looking at years 2016-present, rounds 1-3, comparing to teams that draft around the same position as the steelers:


    Pitt had 4 draft picks make the Pro Bowl

    Balt had 5

    Minn had 2

    Green Bay had 3


    Pitt has 12 of those picks starting when healthy

    Balt has 10

    Minn has 7

    Green bay has 9



    Pitt has 14 of those picks still on the roster

    Balt has 12

    Minn has 11

    Green Bay has 13
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2021
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  21. SpeedyMikeWallace

    SpeedyMikeWallace Well-Known Member

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    I’d wager most of the bad we’ve seen come from Art II interference and Tomlin wanting particular guys. The Colbert + Dan + Cowher era seemed to be much more consistent. Colbert is GM but still has to do what the owner and HC want.

    Nelson’s handling has Tomlin’s fingerprints all over it. A move like that, completely dumping a very good player in his prime is not something Colbert has a history or doing nor is it something a GM of his caliber is likely to do. Moves like that are usually a result of a player falling out of favor with the HC.

    Moving up to grab a particular MLB as a scheme fit is a HC and owner move.

    Overdrafting a SS in the first round also had Tomlin written all over it.

    Drafting Najee is 100% Art II. The guy is infatuated with the idea of being a power running team. I bet he has posters of Derrick Henry in his office.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2021
  22. AtlSteel

    AtlSteel Well-Known Member

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    First OL pick in 2020 was our fourth pick - G - Dotson, 4th round. First OL pick in 2021 was our third pick - G - Green, 3rd round. Clearly not the glaring priority everyone else in the world believes.
     
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  23. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    They’ve had a lot of success with undrafted guys like Villanueva, Feiler and Foster in the recent past, perhaps they though they could keep that going and there was no need to draft OLine high.

    They made the mistake of letting a good Oline grow old together and they are now facing a big problem unless the guys they’ve drafted develop quickly
     
  24. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    Losing Shazier to a freak accident on the field and drafting Edmunds instead of Leonard set the defense back for years. And now the chickens have come home to roost. Can't blame Colbert for the bad luck that was Shazier accident... but yeah... Jones, Burns and Edmunds picks were not good, IMO. Bush is turning out to be a bust, also.

    I think Najee Harris will turn out to be a good pick in time.
     
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  25. troybellringer55

    troybellringer55 Well-Known Member

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    From everything I hear Brandon Hunt is highly regarded by Steelers brass to succeed Colbert should he ever retire or leave.

    Omar Kahan also might be considered, but I think many view Kahan as an extreme cap guru, and maybe not a huge evaluator of football talent. He's interviewed with other teams for GM jobs 4-5 times and never been hired.

    But if Hunt get the job expect Kahan to probably go else where to another franchise.

    But who knows they may go outside the organization all together too.

    Brandon Hunt also once interviewed with the Eagles for their GM opening as well in the past.
     
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