Who's the boss?

Wow! With the craptacular players we have on offense it's a wonder we aren't picking #1! I don't think anyone can argue that the offensive weapons we have on this current team have had their equal in Pittsburgh since the 70's. So let me ask you, with all your uber management teachy-ness: when you get together a group of talented, capable individuals and set them to a task and they fail, who is more likely the problem? The team, or the "manager?" Who should ultimately be held accountable? Art already gave us the correct answer.

 

How could it be a bad move when much of the staff helped this team make it to three Superbowls? They haven't had a losing season since Tomlin took over has head coach. You can't complain but it was a bad move? Which is it?

Look at what? Don't blame Tomlin for what Rooney has turned into.

 

i agree with alot of what you are saying, but i will say the rooney boys were part of this team as youngsters. mostly in the scouting department back in the day. they were pretty good at it too and learned from some of the best. dick haley was part of that teaching to them.

i too wondered about artII 's attitude about running this team, much the way i sometimes wondered about dan being to soft at times ( during the cowher years infact). he did step in and require cowher to draft ben. it's been well written that he didn't want a qb.

only time will tell if this was a good move by art or not. i really don't like all the young hires that MT has been making. alot of untested guys at this level and in another post i mentioned this. it was also about the young black coaches he's hired. is he doing this to make himself seem like more of a mentor to them? i'm a D3 head coach, i like to surround myself with proven people that i don't have to micromanage. they also help the young coaches in alot of ways. some of his hires at this level are head scratchers to me. i caught alot of flack and meant no disrespect by it, i just think since MT is such a young coach finding his way as a head coach, he could use some help with guidence at times. sometimes it's hard to see the forest for the trees. like the promise to kirby wilson, the OC position. scottie montgomery as the WR coach. i don't think scottie has brought these young guns along as they should be. they have the skillset, but teaching them to get open has not been accomplished. i'm not real thrilled about our RB's advancement, yet we will promise him the OC job. why? these RB's have talent, i just don't see them taking big steps toward improvement. lake so far has been a good decision , so far. carnell is very intelligent.

i'm still not so sure MT gets his extension either. the next big decision art will have to deal with. he has input from alot of others though.

 

What has Rooney turned into?

 

I'll blame Tomlin for forcing Rooney to do what he had to do that no Rooney had to do in over 40 years. That's a black eye on the head coach, not the owner. You're not going to win that argument.

Tomlin rode Cowher's team to two Super Bowls. Let's not make any mistake in that. I really still have no idea what kind of head coach the Steelers have. I don't know what kind of leader he is. I don't know what kind of philosophy he has. I don't know what kind of manager of people he is, because since he took over, have you noticed the number of times Steelers players have steered off course? (James? Mendy tweets? Ward criticizing Ben over concussions? Ben's issues in georgia?) What I know is he has done just enough not to screw up. But the gist of my post was that he made no decisions when taking the job and that lack of clear vision has finally caught up to him.

 

geeze, where to start?!

tomlin didn't "force rooney" to fire arians. arians ran an offense that reached a super bowl 40% of the time he was in the burgh with one of the worst offensive lines in football (he's not the director of player personnel, nor is he the gm). furthermore, he has a sandlot qb that is not a system qb. regardless, just by letting ben be ben, had he not suffered a high ankle sprain at season's end, we might have very well played in the big game again this season. people act like we were completely inept offensively and point to one stupid statistic (red zone scoring) as the reason. does anyone else realize that our personnel is not really equipped to succeed in the red zone? a horrible offensive line, a rb who is terrible in short yardage situations, with the decline of hines we have zero red zone targets at the skills positions, and a qb who doesn't make quick accurate throws and, to my recollection, has never even attempted a back-shoulder throw that guys like rodgers, brees, brady, and the REAL elite qb's in this league make effortlessly when inside the twenty. and todd haley is going to come in and fix that? we'll see.

that collection of skills players is so overrated it's laughable. yeah, they're great in open space -- when ben runs around and all of these fast, young guys improvise and eventually get open. when they get inside the twenty . . . different story. it's so difficult to scheme for these guys, and our short yardage game is so horrendous, that we have to run wr reverses from the one-yard line. does that kind of innovation and outside-the-box thinking receive any praise? nope. just a, "um, well . . . yeah . . . that was kind of a nice call, i guess."

"you're not going to win that argument" he says. ha! you know your argument is weak when you need to preframe it with that sentence.

"tomlin rode cowher's team to two super bowls. let's not make any mistake in that." you just did. tomlin coached those teams. tomlin got the ring. tomlin took a cowher team that missed the playoffs, got them a home playoff game the next season, and a super bowl trophy the year after that. let's not make any mistake in THAT. give credit where credit is due. i've been to latrobe. i've seen tomlin coaching up those guys. tomlin has done a hell of a job with this team and is one of the most respected coaches in the league. in player's surveys, this guy is consistently one of the top three coaches players want to play for.

you're blaming an a-hole, arrogant, primadona, jerk qb's behavior on mike tomlin? really?! every bar owner and half of pittsburgh hated benjamin todd roethlisberger well before tomlin arrived. big ben is a jerk. sorry. he is. james harrison has acted no differently than joey porter ever did. which one had the pitbulls that killed the midget ponies? whose watch was that under? which one got shot in the ass in a drive-by? who was the coach then? ward was criticizing ben? when was ben critical of the lack of tall receivers? i do believe that was after plaxico split. also under cowher's watch. harrison's domestic violence situation was when? what about cedrick wilson's? cowher didn't coach during the social media era so let's just not go there. the entire thought process in this paragraph needs *****-slapped.

tomlin has "done just enough not to screw up?!" he has been to two super bowls in five freakin' years!!

the tomlin hate is absolutely incomprehensible to me.

 

This is the best thread in forever!!!

Points - Counter Points abound.

I think this team has rich people problems. That ia a good thing....

 

Don't be so worried. We've heard Art speak like 4 times. I'm fine with him speaking out a little here and there.
And he doing it the right way, he only has the teams best interest in mind.

I mean, imagine if he acted like Jim Irsay. Jesus man, at least our owner doesn't tweet
What he has for dinner, lunch and breakfast, in fact he doesn't tweet at all to my knowledge.

Like most posters say, this is something that is a little different and the media is putting a one million x
Magnifying glass on it.

 

If Tomlin doesn't get a contract extension this off season, he likely won't be getting one. The Rooney's history is to re-sign their HC with 2 years remaining on the old deal and that's where MT is right now. The next few months will be interesting to say the least.

P.S. And Wanderer, the word "hate" is way over used on this board. Just saying.

 

I cut it down to save space. But I just wanted to say - excellent post.

I don't think it's a Tomlin "hate" going on, more a Tomlin distrust, or bewilderment. But a lot of the arguments I've heard against Tomlin are basically shaping the evidence to their needs.

Now, if Tomlin were to come out and say "hey, I do this and this and this at work, and this was my idea and that wasn't..." then perhaps there would be more of a case to be made. But you know what? He's not going to do that. And it's for that reason that we end up with these speculative arguments about how he's doing nothing.

 

Seems he's becoming more vocal about the team then Dan ever was. I do not believe it was necessary to voice his opinion regarding the team to the public. Coaches are under enough pressure. They don't need to feel pressure coming from the owners of the team. Overriding the head coaches wish regarding who should be on his staff was wrong.

Sorry but this situation reeks of Jerry Jones type of involvement. I never agreed with the way Jerry handled his biz. Not going to agree with how Art this situation. I don't think it bodes well for the future of this organization if Art continues to override the coaches.

 

Only time will tell but I think it's a little drastic to think that Rooney is acting like Jerry Jones.

 

Everyone knows who the boss is, fellas... Bruce Springsteen

 

Great post. Especially on the point of Tomlin riding Cowher's team to 2 SB's. I'm sooooo tired of hearing that ridiculous :bs:

 

Um. After all that hot air...one question: where did I ever say I hated Tomlin? I actually like the guy. My point was, I have no idea what kind of coach he is. And I worried about this from the very beginning when he couldn't even assemble a staff.

Thank you for pointing out all of Cowher's "problem players," but I would argue this: all of that happened well into Cowher's coaching tenure. And, yes, it's probably true that with social media, keeping players focused is a little more difficult. Indeed, Tomlin had no problem benching Mendy last year for lack of effort. But you missed my point: I don't KNOW how good he is at managing the team, managing the players.

But back to the first argument: you didn't address it. Nothing anyone can say will remove the fact that for the first time in over 40 years, a Rooney publicly overruled his head coach on a personnel decision. You think this says something about Art? I say no. He's been around this team for a long time. Instead, it says something about Mike Tomlin. And that has me worried.

 

I appreaciate your more fair-minded approach. Indeed, it isn't Tomlin hate. But Tomlin came in as the head coach and his first job, as a new HC, is usually to assemble a staff that matches the direction he wants to go in. After Tomlin was hired, I expected heads to roll and for people to be brought in that matched some sort of football philosophy. Instead, Tomlin did...well...nothing. Hence the arguments about riding Cowher's coattails. He didn't just win another SB with mostly Cowher players...he did it with mostly Cowher coaches, too. I guess we should all give Barry Switzer big kudos for doing the same thing with the 1995 Cowboys. (Honestly, I think Tomlin's a much better coach than Switzer, though. Just sayin'.) Do I truly mind that he did this? No. We won a Super Bowl with this approach. But here we are, now, five years into Tomlin's tenure, and when big staff decisions are having to be made, he seems incapable of making them. It was clear to everyone (except Mike, appranetly) that Arians needed to go.

 

he did have one of the only 3-4 defenses in place at that time and they were just coming off a SB win within two years and were also a highly rated defense at the time. i really would have worried about his decision making if he dismantled that and DLB at that point. he knew he had a good thing going then. why would you dismantle that when he knew he had his hands full with trying to figure out how to run a team and even get home at night in a new city?

 

12to88, I think your thoughts on Tomlin can be put in a better frame of reference when you remember he is cut of the Tony Dungy mold. There have been people on the boards that have talked about his lack of leadership or wanting to see what type of leader he is. They want him to put his stamp on the team or mold the team in his image however that isn't who Tomlin is. I have said it before he isn't a leader because he doesn't view himself as one and he has said it repeatedly. His whole "zen" philosophy about being in the moment being this sorta of mentor each year for these young men is what he is about. I mean listen to the man talk at his press conferences about how excited he is to see who steps forward, about things unfold, about the story this group of 53 writes and so on. He wants to be the guru who points the way but allows he player to flourish. It is hard to set a direction for a team or put your stamp on it when your whole attitude is based on the team self determining their own course.

Now don't get me wrong it is maddening as heck to watch but once you understand that Tomlin doesn't view himself as a leader in puts his choices in a different light and makes them easier to understand.

 

Good points.

 

Tomlin has been quoted in the past,something about a true leader leads with a servants heart,he needs to provide his men with everything they need to be great. He gave them Lebeau and now he finally gave them a competent OC , so let's see where we go with it.

 

The whole story concerning Rooney/Tomlin/Arians is strange. All along it seems like Mr. Rooney wanted BA gone?Tomlin wanted him to stay? Who really knows?

 

who really knows? i think we all know. the events have been pretty well documented.

 

correct. he might as well just grab a ballcap, clipboard, and a whistle while he's at it.

better yet, he could be like those old bugs bunny cartoons where he plays every position in a (baseball) game too.