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Who is really running the show?

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by ThrowToHeath, Jan 24, 2012.

  1. ThrowToHeath

    ThrowToHeath Well-Known Member

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    Much of the talk these days revolves around this idea that Bruce Ariens was the reason the Steelers shifted away from a run based offense to a pass play offense. It seems to be true. When BA took over the Steelers were runnign the ball more, and when he left they were throwing the ball more.

    Times are changing in the NFL, and a potent passing attack is vital.

    But was it really BA who changed the Steeler's offensive philosophy? Can a Steeler's coordinator have this much power?

    Since it is now clear that Tomlin wanted to keep BA but was overruled by Art Rooney, is it Tomlin that was the cause of this switch to a passing attack?

    When the Steelers are throwing and scoring, they look great and they win big. They did this early on in the season, when Mike Wallace was scoring big points and making big plays. Hines Ward was also starting, and Heath Miller was a vital component. BA has always been a Hines Ward and Heath Miller fan, as he has said many times. He was not involved in the drafting of Wallace/Sanders or Brown.

    Regardless what we may think about BA and his playcalling, we cannot neglect to give him some credit for helping to lead our team to successful seasons, including two Super Bowl appearences. Was it sloppy at times? Of course. But this is a trend in the NFL. Outside of mastermind head coaches that run their offenses like Payton/Belichick/McCarthy, all teams have periods of offensive woes. If we were fans of Baltimore, we would despise CC just as much as BA, if not more.

    So why is our offense struggling?

    I think this is a much simpler answer other than blaming BA. I simply think that the Steelers brass who drafted players failed to address a pivitol offensive role. Possession receivers.

    If you disagree then you are overlooking the fact that our possession receivers have been scoring the points for this team forever and do not get the credt that they deserve. Hines Ward was this for us through his long career. Heath Miller has always until late been our red-zone guys, just slightly ahead of Ward.

    With the Young Money guys, we don't have that possession or scoring threat. Mike Wallace has a better chance of scoring on our own 20 yard line than he does on the opponenets 20 yeard line. Less field makes it harder to hide his lack of route running ability, thus rendering him useless when we approach the redzone. Brown and Sanders fit his same build, with the exception of Wallace being faster and Brown actually having the ability to make catches. However, Brown cant play the role of the Hines Ward in his prime, who could run people over and score. Brown gets touched, and is down.

    Is it BA's fault that our Front Office has neglected to plan for the eventual decline of Hines Ward and Heath Miller? I don't think so. I think that the Roony's want us to be something on offense that is a step behind of what 2011 showed us.

    Passing numbers were at an extreme this year, setting virtually all passing records. The trend though, is that Tight Ends are making the plays now. We have a really good tight end, but he blocks instead of catches. The Roony's and Colbert and perhaps Tomlin, thought that young speed receivers were going to revolutionize the way offense is done in this league, but they were a step behind the real revolutionaries.

    And that is why we are at home watching the Super Bowl this year.
     
  2. colsteveaustin

    colsteveaustin Well-Known Member

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    It's a passing league now.You have to score points in bunches too keep up.Airans is'nt the only one to blame for our offensive woes.I think Tomlin is also to blame.The Rooneys run the show,So They have the final say in everything.
     
  3. ScottChab

    ScottChab Well-Known Member

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    There is plently of blame to go around for this offense to be ranked #21 in points scored. Rooney, Tomlin, Arians and the players are all on the hook.
     
  4. Da Stellars

    Da Stellars Well-Known Member

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    Tomlin wasn't aloud to hire any of his coordinators. Bruce was promoted from within most likely at the Rooney's orders.

    Tomlins let the Bruce and Ben run the show. Tomlin said he was a coach who wanted to run the ball when he was hired. These are 2 conflicting things??
     
  5. HugeSnack

    HugeSnack Well-Known Member

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    "Is it BA's fault that our Front Office has neglected to plan for the eventual decline of Hines Ward and Heath Miller?"

    I don't get the lumping of Hines and Heath. Yes they are both possession receivers, but you're talking about Heath like he's declining as fast as Hines. Hines was a rookie in 1997, right? Heath in 2005. Doesn't he turn 30 this year? He hasn't shown a single sign of decline so far, and I wouldn't expect him to for a few years at least. And as an athletic, intelligent guy and outstanding blocker with good routes and soft hands, he could play late into his 30s like Gonzalez. There's no reason to have planned for his successor already. We might as well plan for Woodley's.
     
  6. AFan

    AFan Well-Known Member

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    Man, if this team ever goes 4-12, it will be interesting to see what people complain about then.

    Steeler Nation you are soooo spoiled, and you're completely unaware of it.
     
  7. Cbus Steelers

    Cbus Steelers Well-Known Member

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    You say Arians had no role in drafting Wallace/Sanders/Brown. This article in the PPG says "Arians was largely responsible for the drafting of Wallace, Brown and Emmanuel Sanders, the team's top three receivers" http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12021/1205041-66-0.stm

    So if your main point is that the FO is mainly to blame because they drafted these "non-possession receivers", this seems to contradict your argument quite a bit.
     
  8. diehardsteel

    diehardsteel Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, we all zoned out there for a minute. Unaware of what?
    :popcorn:
     
  9. ScottChab

    ScottChab Well-Known Member

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    Were you satisfied with the performance of this team this year?
     
  10. BLACKnGOLDsince72

    BLACKnGOLDsince72 Well-Known Member

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    I was. Right up until we got "Tebowed" in Denver :o :o :lolol:
     
  11. AFan

    AFan Well-Known Member

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    What's the beef w/12-4? With a bad OL and an aging D that gets no Turnovers? They shouldn't have lost in Denver. But suppose they won and lost in NE or Balt? is that a bad year?
     
  12. ScottChab

    ScottChab Well-Known Member

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    12-4 is a good regular season record... but the goal of a team and their fans is not to have a good regular season record only to get bounced in the Wild Card round. I would have rather had them win in Denver and have a chance against Baltimore or New England.
     
  13. AFan

    AFan Well-Known Member

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    Ok fine. But there's plenty of yahoos here that think the season is failure if the B&G don't lift the Lombari. Hey, they're entitled to their aspirations, just be prepared to be dissapointed 80-90% of the time. Sometimes you don't win a playoff game. Sometimes you don't make the playoffs after you win the SB. Sometimes you're not good enough.

    This was a good team this year. But they got away with a lot of ugly narrow wins against bad teams on the road. They didn't get away with one more in Denver in the playoffs. Schtuff happens and sometimes it happens at the worst possible timing.
     
  14. HugeSnack

    HugeSnack Well-Known Member

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    We are spoiled, but some of us do know it. We have not drafted in the top 10 since I became a fan.

    The team did underperform this year, for a lot of the season. There were the 4 losses, obviously, which were ALL ugly (no "nice try, get 'em next time"s here. All ugly). And we just looked flat through most of the other wins. Something was missing. Ben wasn't on his game. The defense was super banged up. We were within one play of losing to Jacksonville, KC, Cleveland... We beat Seattle 24-0, and I remember thinking, "This is not a convincing win." Seattle only crossed midfield once, only to be sacked by Harrison on 4th down! Still, something wasn't right. We played like an 8-8 team and happened to win 12 games.

    I'm not complaining, though. That's just what I think. Although I have MANY complaints about the Denver game, but let's not...
     
  15. ScottChab

    ScottChab Well-Known Member

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    Easy big fella. I never said I expected the Steelers to win the Super Bowl but it is pretty clear that this team underperformed. #21 in points scored with the offensive weapons we have? Really? Getting bounced by a team who gets smoked the following week by a team we beat earlier in the season? Seriously?

    Sometimes you have an OC with ZERO creativity. Sometimes you have players that don't execute. Sometimes you don't get the calls. Sometimes the ball just doesn't bounce your way. Regardless of the reason(s) for getting knocked out of the playoffs, there is no way that everyone is going to be satisfied with a 12-4 regular season record.
     
  16. KnoxVegasSteel

    KnoxVegasSteel Well-Known Member

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    This team grossly underachieved on offense based on the talent they have at the skill positions. Based on that, this season has been very disappointing. And apparently the owners of the team agree with that as well since they have taken swift action to get rid of the main reason - Bruce Arians. I would consider it a failure when your OC is "retiring" (read fired) after getting embarrased by a flagrantly inferior Denver squad led by a guy who clearly does not have NFL starting QB talent.

    12-4 and a postseason bid is great. But like you said, this team narrowly beat some crappy teams that they should have blown out. I'm not satisifed with that and I'm guessing that the players, coaches, and owners aren't satisifed with it either. As far as this team going 4-12, the mid-80's was close enough and it really sucked as I'm sure you remember. There was plenty to complain about, which makes it even more disappointing that the Steelers are squandering a golden opportunity to win more Lombardi's. With the talent they have and the fact that they are not getting any younger, I'm not satisified with how the last 2 seasons have ended. Another franchise QB is not waiting in the wings for when Ben is destroyed. So, call it spoiled or whatever suits you, but this team has underachieved and we shouldn't be happy about it.
     
  17. SteelerJJ

    SteelerJJ Well-Known Member

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    We were 6-10 in 2003 and I'm glad I didn't have the internet then. I just read my Steelers Digest and shook my head. I don't see us going 4-12 anytime soon but I wouldn't be surprised to see us struggle for a couple of years. This season's D was the worst I have seen sine the Lee Flowers/Dwayne Washington days.
     
  18. TarheelFlyer

    TarheelFlyer Well-Known Member

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    This debate about run-oriented vs. pass-oriented, I think, always gets off track. It becomes an argument about us passing too much. Personally, I have no problem with how much we pass the ball. We ran the ball about 4 times for every 5 times we threw the ball. NO was 4 for every 6. They had one of the best offenses in the NFL. Green Bay had 51 passing TDs....we had 21. Let's put that in perspective...we threw the ball a total of 13 times less than GB did on the year, yet they had 30 more TD passes than we did. And before you say, well we ran the ball a whole lot more than they did, understand that we ran the ball 39 times more than they did....39. We had 13 rushing TDs....they had 12.

    You see it isn't about what plays we do pass or run, it is about what we are doing with those plays. If you look at our stats and Green Bay's stats you will find very similar numbers. 1st downs are about the same. YAC are about the same. Rushing yards aren't way off considering. The main difference IMO is 2 areas. First, they have a much better Red Zone efficiency rate than we do. Unfortunately, BA always had that problem. He argued how great his offenses were by talking about yards. Second, is about matchups. Green Bay showed us last year in the Super Bowl, they find a matchup or 2 or 3 they want to expose or abuse. They then use plays to exploit that weakness. They use other plays to set up the one or 2 they really want. Running the ball at the CB on one side, then running play action to get him to engage. Pulling the FS to one side of the field, but really attacking shorter to the other side. Our plays serve no purpose, they are just something to do. The progression of plays doesn't seem to have any plan.
     
  19. Cru Jones

    Cru Jones Well-Known Member

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    I would say Ben has/had the biggest influence on the offense. It's no secrete that Arians only calls plays that Ben likes.

    "He's been able to break down the playbook to exactly what Ben likes," Steelers backup quarterback Charlie Batch said of Arians. "This offense is Ben's offense ...
    Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12020/12 ... z1kUT89mDa

    That how Arians chose to run his offense and at the end of the day, he is still responsible for it.
     
  20. jdubb86

    jdubb86 Member

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    No truer statement has ever been spoken, I never expected us to make waves come playoff time because of this. We didn't dominate anyone regardless of what the final score was...well, I thought we played great against the Patriots but that was our only highlight!
     
  21. shadowmaker

    shadowmaker Well-Known Member

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    I think BA was an excellent paper OC. I think he could see the talent, how the plays would work, and what guys he needed to do it. But I think it was just that, he was great on paper. I dont think he could 'feel' the game. Or knew when to call what play.
     
  22. diehardsteel

    diehardsteel Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but exactly "how" did he see the bubble screen passes for example, working? You think he really "saw" those stupid passes fooling defenses - all 6 times he called them each and every game? How about calling the same exact running play up the middle over and over which was getting stuffed for no gain or even yards lost? Do you really think he "saw" that play working well for us? How about all the empty backfield formations? Do you think he "saw" the same thing the defense saw, which was "this must be a pass play". I don't know - I'm not really feeling that he was a great "paper OC" either.
     
  23. edog55

    edog55 Well-Known Member

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    At this point, it really doesn't matter because BA is no longer the OC. If it was up to Tomlin, BA would still be the OC because he was walking around with his eyes wide shut and letting BA and Ben run things. Infect, he let Ben decide to let BA come back in 2011. He spoke up for him to Tomlin and Art II. I think he would have been gone last year if Ben didn't express his desire for him to stay.

    After this season, Art II said no more, we are not bringing him back. I also think that Poppa Rooney who is stepping down as the Ambassador to Ireland and coming back to be involved in the running of the team, made it known that he was not satisfied with the way the offense performed. That prompt Art II to not resign BA. Case closed, they took it out of Tomlins hands. Sometimes the owners must do what they have to do for the better of the team.
     
  24. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    At the risk of opening myself up to being mocked yes on paper the plays do work and look good. Now here is the mocking part, if you take the Madden video game.

    lets clear this up once and for all to all those who snicker behind their hands or openly for that matter at anyone who mentions Madden. This is the most popular and best selling video game franchise of all time. It is worked on by men and women who have every intention of making it the most realistic experience a person can get. At its heart though it is just a simulator and as such can be used among other things to get a better understanding of the x's and o's of football. So you can put it in practice mode and look at the playbook (most of which are pretty basic but still have some team specific plays) and see just if a typical play is designed well and could succeed.

    So yes on paper many of these plays that Arains designed look good. However it is in real time where he would mess it all up. I have a long standing discussion three years ago with many people on the old board about his situational play calling and why he did the stupid things he did. At the time the fake end around to Logan was the one that was bothering me much like the bubble screen. They would run that fake end around three times a game always handing it off to Mendenhall for minimal gain and using Logan as a decoy. The only reason you run it three times the same way is so on the fourth time you actually do run the end around and they don't see it coming. Never worked like that though because they always stopped at three. The bubble screen if used right and set up right could be a great play however Arains had no idea how to get to step 5 from step 1 he would always just jump immediately to step 5 and the defense would have the play stopped cold.

    Ok end rant, let mocking begin.

    by the way this isn't aimed at you diehard you just presented a good opportunity to get that off my chest.
     
  25. rukus4ever

    rukus4ever Well-Known Member

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    Truth.
     

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