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WHIFF!!!

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by JackAttack 5958, Mar 15, 2017.

  1. steelersrock151

    steelersrock151 Well-Known Member

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    Holy crap, deja vu! I swear I imagined reading this exact same thread in 2016. and 2015. and 2014..........
     
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  2. RPO IZSB

    RPO IZSB Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to amend the narrative from "elite pass rusher" to "elite pass rush". Then I'm on board.
    A single Elite Pass Rusher, can also be gameplanned for (doubled, chipped, waggled, etc). An elite pass rush as a unit, cannot be stopped.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. RPO IZSB

    RPO IZSB Well-Known Member

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    This coming year, the difference is only 4 million
    Last year, the difference was 10.2 million in cap space.
     
  4. RPO IZSB

    RPO IZSB Well-Known Member

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    The biggest "miss" in this whole "we whiffed on free agents" narrative... is that our biggest improvement on Defense in 2017 was ALWAYS going to come from within. Sure, an additional free agent would add to that... but the real improvement defensively comes from:

    1. The Return of Heyward
    2. The exponential growth year from Dupree
    3. The year 2 "speed of the game" improvement from Burns and Davis
    4. The Hargrave factor

    Sure, an upgrade on Harrison (or more accurately Moats/Chickillo) would have helped... and yes, our depth at corner is concerning... but let's not pretend that our defense isn't naturally improving from within.
     
  5. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    my thinking all along. i do think chickillo will get better as well.

    slot.
    mitchell (though i like mitchell but i think we can upgrade this spot).
    moats. does nothing to improve us for his money. i like the guy moats though.
    upgrade JH in time.
    true #2 CB upgrade. can cockrell make the move inside? he's a keeper for me even as depth if not starting.:cool:
     
  6. RPO IZSB

    RPO IZSB Well-Known Member

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    Agreed and disagree

    Slot - Our #1 concern. Gay is not getting any younger, and Golson is 2 years removed from playing any form of football
    Mitchell - I think Mitchell is a lot better than the narrative. This spot is not in immediate need of upgrade, although his backup could be.
    Moats - Useless... he can be cut and we'd save a good bit of cap space.
    JH - Obviously
    #2 CB - I think Cockrell is a good #2 corner (the reality is that he played as a #1 corner last year). Everyone should go back and watch Cockrell vs AJ Green. The depth behind Cockrell and Burns is the problem... there is none.
     
  7. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    All the more reason I had elite front seven. :smiley1:



    One player can be easily taken out of the equation if he is the premier centerpiece in your defense. An entire unit can cause even the most dedicated of offensive coordiantors fits.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
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  8. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    we agree on cockrell vs. aj. i have said that before. if he tackled better or was i guess more physical in his tackling approach (which he has worked on) he would be a no brainer. boarder line upgrade status as a starter to me. yes good enough but could be better. not a guy we should part with though. kind of a deshea townsend guy to me. nice 3 part time starter if needed. valuable no doubt to a team though.

    i agree and have said it before about golson. two years without even practice is a long time to not play at this level.

    mitchell, for now but i'd love to see more coverage and range from this spot. possibly the bigger package of 3 safeties if we draft right.

    another thought i have had was, do you think MT has the faith in davis to move him to CB opposite burns? i have a strange feeling he likes him as a guy he just may try to do this with. not ideal to me but..... especially if we draft another safety like obi. cockrell to the slot. outside the box thinking for sure but...... i know you would hate this. would MT? does he think davis is good enough to do it? he tried him in the slot early. just some moves to discuss as possibilities. carnell made that move back and forth.:shrug::cool:
     
  9. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    to chime in again, i don't think people are giving enough credence to how having cam back increases our pass rush. if dupree can have a full season and all these weapons can play together,(that we didn't have on the field last year) we shouldn't be all in a panic of needing an edge rusher so bad in the first round. the pass rush should be much increased. an edge guy could be developed. :cool:
     
  10. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    True. Within the same token however, who knows how much effoet James Harrison will be able to give? That being said, having a first round pick to supplement Harrison cures two woes;


    1.) Gets whomever that guy is up to speed with the game


    2.) James obtains the oppurtunity to rest.



    If the end all, be all decision is a cornerback by the end of round one, no worries personally. Nabbing an edge rusher in round two will not be an issue.


    Even so, I would rather have that guy as an edge player round so that when Cameron Heyward does return, our front seven should be good enough for offenses to pick and choose who to double team, which in turn, creates more havoc and causes turnovers as a result.
     
  11. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    1. obi. uconn

    2. jones. n.c.st.

    3. rivers?

    3. willis?

    3. carroll?
    i think having dupree and cam helps chickillo which already helps JH. any addition we make after that will just add to it. :smiley1::cool:
     
  12. RPO IZSB

    RPO IZSB Well-Known Member

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    We agree Cockrell is good. We agree Cockrell has worked on his tackling (weakness). We agree that he's not an elite athlete and never will be, he's never going to have that extra gear. We agree that his Football IQ and ability to process quickly is actually top notch, and an incredibly difficult skill set to find in a CB. It's what makes him good. We agree that he is equally adept in Man and Zone, which has allowed us to evolve and mask cover 1 and cover 3. What we don't agree on, is what that all adds up to. For me, it adds up to a good starting corner who could only be truly upgraded with the acquisition of a top notch #1 CB... or in other words a 10+ million acquisition or the development of an elite draft pick (would take a year or 2)

    Mitchell has done a good job limiting big plays and being a field general. I think he takes too much flack from the fan base that incorrectly places blame on him when it's been Artie and Davis making poor decisions.

    I thought Burns was terrible in the slot early in the season. But I definitely think it's something we should continue to explore. Especially if Golden can find his game again. I don't think Cockrell to the slot would work, but again... that's what camp is for.
     
  13. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    do you mean davis in the slot early? sure there was growing pains with the rookies which made mitchell have more duties to cover up but he's going to be 30 and we need more coverage from him back and forth and side to side. as i said i don't hate mitchell but i want more range and i don't think that will come as he gets older. i do believe burns and davis will be far better in year two. i don't think golden has improved actually regressed last year to me. again this may change as davis and burns get it. are you picking up i want a big fast ball skills good tackling safety yet?:lolol::cool:
     
  14. RPO IZSB

    RPO IZSB Well-Known Member

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    yes, sorry Davis in the slot early... good catch
     
  15. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Davis isn't moving to CB as a starter, they tried him as a slot CB the beginning of last season. It didn't last too long, he got moved into the starting lineup as a safety. They do need to draft Mitchell's replacement though, a safety that can help in 2017 because Golden sucks.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    I agree, draft a guy this class is nice at S and let him ease into it this year and learn. If he comes around then we can cut Mitchell next year and the price won't be as bad. The UConn kid is good, as is the small school kid Jerome he has some nice ball skills. I am also starting to like Williams from Utah more and more as well.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Of the three though, if I had to pick one, Obi Melifonwu would be it (the Uconn kid you mentioned). He can not only play in the box but also deep safety (for him to get bettet at single high covetage would require some seasoning though as you stated).


    Add the fact he fits Tomlins mold of what he wants in his players to a "T", and you have a Tomlin player.
     
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  18. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if you listen to movin the chains on Sirius radio but every Friday from here on out they do a mock draft. Today was the first one and Obi was our pick. I know there is a ton of buzz around him so I am not sure he will be there but he is good and the nice thing is so are some others in case we lose out on him.
     
  19. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    I am 100% positive Obi is going to be there.


    Way too much talent in the top 20. This draft is so front loaded with the top 15 alone it is ludicrous. That, coupled with the fact that defensive backs have now caught up to wide recievers in the "HWS" (height-weight-speed) department and the likelihood of nabbing Obi is boosted.


    One final layer of icing on the Cake? Teams takings picks at 21-29 have needs and values that will supercede Obi's atheltic upside and position; a surefire pick at 30 for us.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  20. Bleedsteel

    Bleedsteel Well-Known Member

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    Thanx for adding to the discussion, all..

    Been great reading.

    I`ve learned lot, since I don`t really delve deep into financial issues, or college players not from Ohio State...

    2 quick questions...

    Hasn`t Ben already re-structured his contract a couple of times, to provide us with cap relief?

    Kinda like Brady has done in NE?


    Yinz think he should, or could do more along those lines?


    And if we need a CB/SAFETY, how would Jabril Peppers from "that team up north", look on our roster?

    Would he be available with our 1st pick?
    He is a very versatile athlete, with a lot of potential, at a variety of positions.

    I`ve seen him play, and he is phenomenal.

    Is there a better player likely to be available when we pick?

    GO STEELERS!:cool:
     
  21. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Here is some info from OTC:

    Ben Roethlisberger signed a 4 year contract extension with the Steelers on March 13, 2015. Details of the contract are based primarily on a report by Ed Bouchette of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. According to Bouchette, Roethlisberger received a $31 million signing bonus. The first three years of the contract are guaranteed for injury which is where the reported $65 million in guarantees comes from. $9 million in escalators are available in the final two contract years. The new contract saved the Steelers about $1.15 million in 2015 cap space.
     
  22. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    How's come Mike Tomlin and position coaches never get any blame
    when it comes to poor draft selections? Y'all our pretty nieve if
    you don't think mike Tomlin has a big say in the draft process.
     
  23. Diamond

    Diamond Well-Known Member

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    Dont count on Obi being on the board at 30:

    Team that has shown most interest/done most work on UConn S Obi Melinfonwu are #Seahawks. Met with him several times, senior Bowl, combine..
     
  24. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Should the Seahawks obtain Obi, that must mean he is the best remaining prospect on their board.


    Do not forget that they need offensive line help more than anything else. If anything, I can see even someone like Cam Robinson fall that far given this years front loaded top 15.
     
  25. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Who is stating Mike Tomlin does not?
     

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