Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by JackAttack 5958, Mar 15, 2017.
I preferred Gilmore and his 5 INTs.
Apparently not but that doesn't mean they have a lot of holes to fill.
I doubt the Steelers feel that way.
You prefer to work with minimal information. I get it.
It's really not that complicated, RPO. Think about it. I know I'm a simpleton in evaluating NFL DBs compared to say, oh, you and Kevin Colbert, but I just kind of look for guys who seem to be able to play a physical form of football and can compete for the ball when it's in the air. I believe INTs and passes defensed are a pretty good indication of that but not the end all, be all necessarily. My tiny brain can't evaluate these guys much beyond that though so hence my preference of working with only minimal information. Of course these are all just opinions you know. You go ahead and continue to take in the massive amount of NFL statistical data that you do and I'll continue to peruse the stat lines and we'll both continue to offer our opinions on what the Steelers should do to improve their secondary which always seems to be its Achilles heel season in and season out.
Omg, Y`all... ...
Jack, I feel your frustration...
I want us to win the SuperBowl every year, too..
Unfortunately, that`s not a realistic goal...
1 team out of 32 does it each year...
I was just about to say how I love that most of the debates on this board, are informative,
and, can argue with each other, without devolving into name calling, insulting each other, with a few notable exceptions...
And then I read the last page or so...
Don`t let them drag ya down into the swamp...
Keep pointing out the facts that make your case, and let them refute you,
or not, and show their lack of debating skills..
That goes to ALL on this board...
It`s what I love to read, and adds to my knowledge of what`s going on with our team,
and what`s going on in the league!
Funny, sarcastic comments are welcomed, and appreciated too, just don`t take it personal, Y`all!!!
We ALL love the best team in the League, we just have differences of opinion, on how to improve on perfection!
P.S., Jack, this post was made before your most recent one...
That`s EXACTLY what I mean!!
It's all in good fun, my friend.
Would not matter if we had primal Revis, Troy, Ed Reed or Champ Bailey all on the same team either.
What does matter is a superb pass rush. Six super bowl victories states this as well. Our most recent one had good corners but great pass rushers... or at least one when he was in his prime.
As I said, I understand your frustration currently Jack. Having the Patriots not only steamroll your team but to win the Super Bowl and are gunning on yet another is infuriating. However, as it stands, Kevin and Mike are doing all they can to reach the summit and place their flag on first before the other competitors do. It is not like they are trying to enrage SteelersNation and make the team weaker by any means.
Drafting the likes of Jarvis Jones and Senquez Golson were moves they thought was right at the time and are already going to try again on nabbing partners for both Artie Burns and Bud Dupree. Once those pieces, along with depth, are completed, Bens successor will possibly have the privilege of playing with a top flight defense when the time comes; the exact same scenario Ben had in 2005 when he won his first and three years later his second. In addition, he will have the likes of Bell and Brown to aide his development, along with Ben's tutelage and knowledge of the game after Ben leaves.
In the end, paitence is a must. My team has been the status quo since 1970 and I will continue to support them until I myself see a cataclysmic collapse; a collaspe in which case they should be punished for should that happen.
So you wanted them to spend 15 million of their 18 million cap space on one player?
It's Colbert's job to figure out how to manage/manipulate the cap space so that we'll be able to sign the kinds of players we need to put us over the hump.
You don't actually think the Steelers were in play for either Gilmore or Bouye, they paid AB 68 million extension and Bell 12 million. And you expect them to offer a FA CB 50-60 million . Like I posted earlier Bouye is a one year wonder, and Gilmore hasn't been a Pro Bowl player either.
No. The fact is the Steelers are NEVER in play for top tier DB talent in free agency. That's where the frustration lies. IMHO, it's Colbert's job to manage / manipulate our cap space to get us in play. I realize it's not easy, but that's why he gets paid the big bucks.
Weak. you didnt answer the question.
The Steelers aren't going to change how they operate, many of those players who signed those big contracts will be cut in a few years.
I think it's already been established that I'm a minimalist when it comes to information.
But to directly answer your question, of course not, we weren't in position to do that. My contention is that it's Colbert's job to get us in position to at least be able to make a run at the kind of talent that will put us over the top while Ben still has the ability and desire to play.
Then we are definitely not having a discussion about cap space
Well then your posts should focus around why doesn't KC have us in better position to sign these guys.
Not: Why isnt Colbert making any moves!!!!
But I get it. FA is like Christmas and you keep looking around at everyone elses presents and there are none under your tree. Frustrating.
Not sure why you needed to type a paragraph to rephrase exactly what you quoted me saying with 1 sentence.
Brevity's not my strong suit. So sue me.
I guess the next question (for minimalists and maximumalists alike) then is: where would we say the current overspend in our current cap situation?
Or, perhaps put another way, who do you let go to get that coveted corner?
This is true but let's not forget we have been digging ourselves out of cap hell cause he locked up our older stars like Ike and Troy. He did all this while still keeping us competitive and when I say competitive I am talking super bowl caliber. He also locked up a lot of our younger talent and built an under the radar oline to protect our franchise QB.
Has he made mistakes he sure has the Woodley contract was a big one. But let me ask you show me a GM that has done more with less? You can't, he didn't have a star that took a pay cut to help the team and he don't have FA lined up that want to come here for vet min for a chance to win a SB.
The last thing, you keep pounding the secondary and yeah it has been bad but look at a few things. First we got old super fast, Clark, Troy and Ike all stars of our great secondary just hit a wall. When we did try to fix it guys didn't pan out. Allen fell off the face of the Earth when we locked him up, Golson can't stay healthy and Shark just didn't pan out. We lost Lewis to FA and Grant didn't work out as well. We spent a 3rd in 2011, a 4th and 5th in 2013, a 2nd and 4th in 2015 and of course the 1st two last year. jmo
The Woodley contract can only be seen as a mistake by looking in hindsight. At the time it was exactly the right thing to do to lock up a top pass rusher entering his prime. After signing the contract, Woodley had the best stretch of his career statistically over the first half of 2011 before the hamstring injury. Was Colbert supposed to predict that would happen after Woodley had just produced 35 sacks in 47 starts over the prior 3 seasons (showing both durability and productivity)? If that isn't earning a big contract, what is?
Sorry, but I think when that contract is pointed out as a mistake that it's revisionist history. What that contract is an example of is the risk that comes with locking up ANY player to a huge contract. Even a guy who has been exceptionally durable and productive can go south at any time if he gets hurt. This is part of why it's important for teams to be judicious when throwing around money. If that can happen with a guy that's home grown, and that you know well, how much more risk is there paying big money for players that you haven't had in your own facility for several years?
Interesting and informative cap discussion for a minimalist like me. Colbert has made some mistakes with a few players and I think it's fair to criticize hem for handing out "legacy" contracts to some of our older players. He's also whiffed on several DBs so I think that criticism is also in play. The Woodley deal was what it was. Probably a good deal at the time but nobody knew his hammies were going to turn to spam overnight.
I do appreciate the football intellect of my fellow board members and these discussions are educational for this minimalist, lol.
One last question for you all. Brady has obviously been open to re-structuring his contract to make it more cap friendly to keep the Pats competitive. Do you think Ben might be open to the same thing in order to bring in players who could help him and the team win another Lombardi or two before he retires?
SE, I am not pointing it out from that point in time I am pointing it out from now. I am trying to show Jack why we are the way we are, the Woodley contract was part of that. I am not saying right or wrong, that is not what I am referring to. I am saying a GM has to deal whith the hand he is delt, just like I pointed out about Allen and about Golson. You can't predict what happens but no matter what the world don't stop and you have to deal with it....that is what KC does pretty darn good.
All GM's make mistakes, I am to busy here at work to look it up but how many GM's in KC time have there been? There is a reason he stays here and that is cause we win, and we are a SB caliber team every year. For all the misses KC has there is a AV or an AB right there to pull us out and show how good he is. Yeah there are misses but there are big wins too, that gets over looked a lot.
As for Ben pulling a Brady I have no clue but he isn't the only one we also have Bell and AB up top who could help but $$$ makes the world go round.......and as a poor soul he working I can't blame them, lol.
4 of the 6 SB wins were played under completely different rules for defense and offense. The steel curtain days DBs could practically mug a receiver downfield but now you can just barely bump a guy 6 yards off the line and you get either illegal contact, holding, or PI called. I hate saying this but Mel Blount would have been horrible under the current rules, and our secondary, with an awesome pass rush was tore up against Seattle, we just happened to be on the right end of some calls that aren't always flagged, and we almost lost to the Cardinals as Kurt Warner was having his way the entire second half, the saving grace was their DBs were as bad as ours. Peyton Manning not being able to beat teams outside in December or teams with physical CBs are what is to blame for the rules we have now, after NE whipped the Colts by disrupting the timing routes Manning was an expert at, the rules committee changed the game to give the offensive side of the ball an even bigger advantage. If you have CBs that can cover man to man for just a short time, that is when the pass rush is important, because it takes away all the underneath routes the NE normally killed us with, this season they did it with intermediate and long passes as we had no pass rush and not a single DB capable of playing anything other than zone. This team needs 1 shutdown CB, and that will change the defense, it will allow the team to bring a blitz without getting killed for it like we do now, that 1 key position will change the entire dynamic of the defense and allow them to be more aggressive.