1. Hi Guest, Registrations are now open. See you on the inside.

WHIFF!!!

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by JackAttack 5958, Mar 15, 2017.

  1. JackAttack 5958

    JackAttack 5958 Well-Known Member

    8,224
    283
    Oct 18, 2011
    Let's face it, guys. We have WHIFFED in free agency! KC and the FO need to be prepared to take some criticism. We can say what we want about other teams overpaying and how smart the Steelers are and we go out and find cheap bargains at the NFL's version of a thrift store. I call BULLCRAP! We needed to sign a top flight CB and failed to do it. We still have a major need for an edge rusher. We had some cap space this year, maybe not as much as other teams, but we did have more money to spend than in years past. Ben's time is shorter than we think and our next franchise quarterback may still be in JV.

    We need to do something NOW. The Pats and Rats aren't resting on their laurels. Shoot, every time I turn on NFLN or ESPN the freaking Patriots have made another move. Meanwhile, crickets in Pittsburgh other than a guy trying to drive his value up in, you guessed it, Patriot land!

    So far this offseason is ONE BIG FAIL!
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  2. steel1031

    steel1031 Well-Known Member

    3,062
    112
    Oct 16, 2011
    Making moves doesn't mean they are good moves. I am in the minority but I don't think the pats have done better. It's possible they could lose 4 starters on d. Probably won't. They lost a 1st round pick for a overrated wr.
     
  3. Griswald

    Griswald Well-Known Member

    432
    37
    Oct 21, 2014
    Same bat time...same bat channel.

    ITS WHAT THE STEELERS DO...
     
  4. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

    2,411
    239
    Dec 10, 2012
    You and I have agreed on a lot of things however I strongly disagree here. First off name one time we were actually a big player in FA........never. Also we have been busy locking up 14 of our own guys and a few more just have to sign cause they are RFA's. Another thing is yeah we have some cap space but not a whole lot, we can not afford(from a cap space stance) to throw 10-12 mil at a position right now, We have guys we have to lock up over the next year like Shazier, Tuitt and AV.

    Now let's look at positions we want to add to:

    CB - The draft is loaded here and we have Artie and Cockrell already. IMO not a position I want to throw a ton of money.

    S - We are handcuffed here with Mitchell so instead of a FA let's draft a S to step in next year to replace him and pair with Davis from a young fast combo. Again a deep draft class here.

    OLB- We are set with starters but this is still a very big need, and year the draft is loaded we could grab 2 this year.

    ILB - Probably our biggest need, I don't want to spend 10+ here but there are cheap options to go with Shazier, VW, Matakevich. I want a FA here as the draft isn't as deep and the FA class has a few nice cheap names out there.

    DL- Depth is what we need not need to spend big money here

    Oline- I think we are set here

    TE - We have enough money already in Green but this draft class is super deep I say we draft another

    WR - Would have liked to grab a mid level guy but we have a lot of depth here unlike last year due to injury and suspension. Also another position that is deep in the draft and with the Steelers success in draft at this position I am all for that.

    RB - Yes we need a back up, but then again I said back up no need to spend big here. I like the draft for this also but if we bring in a vet that is fine too.

    QB - I am not touching this we have Ben and we signed that other guy,,,,,,,

    So there you go where did you need us to spend? I feel our starters are set and while we have 19.9 mil space that isn't a reason to throw 10+ mil at a FA. Right now we have 6 guys with a cap hit of 10+ mil and a few others that will need to be re signed next year. I know other teams like the Cheats are throwing money around but that can't be us. We are 2 different teams, we spend on Bell, Brown and a oline to keep Ben up. They spend on Brady and get guys who will play for nothing.

    I am just saying we never are a big FA player so to be pissed is wrong, we are a team that builds thru the draft and get a players here and there in FA, always have always will...............that is the STEELER WAY
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

    20,816
    788
    Oct 16, 2011
    Please MR Free Agent, we can't pay you 15 million and obliterate the rest of our cap space but wont you please accept our paltry 5 million offer and look at our 6 shiny trophies.

    :beathorse:
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 2
  6. JackAttack 5958

    JackAttack 5958 Well-Known Member

    8,224
    283
    Oct 18, 2011
    Good analysis, NY. I won't address it point by point but I will make a couple of comments. You're right about our philosophy of spending money on Ben and the O line. That's all well and good. Meanwhile, the Pats have figured out how to do a cap friendly deal with perhaps the greatest QB to ever play the game so they can surround him with other solid pieces enabling them to continue to be in the Super Bowl sweepstakes year after year. Brady's cap hit is roughly half that of Ben's.

    This is a passing league and we keep whiffing at improving perhaps the most important unit on the team, the secondary. Both the Pats and Rats have signed top level DBs the last couple of years. The Broncos won the Super Bowl last year due in large part to their strong secondary lead by Talib and Ward, two upper tier free agency signings.

    I appreciate your well researched response, but the bottom line is Colbert needs to figure out how to get it done with the secondary and the fact is he's not getting it done!
     
  7. JackAttack 5958

    JackAttack 5958 Well-Known Member

    8,224
    283
    Oct 18, 2011
    See my response to NY. Maybe Colbert and company need to figure out how to better manage the team's cap space, enabling us to surround Ben with the talent he needs, especially in the secondary, to make one more run before his career suddenly ends!

    AND...I'm reporting you to PETA!
     
  8. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

    2,411
    239
    Dec 10, 2012
    Thanks Jack, but I will add Denver did it with a strong pass rush as well. The other thing I will point out is that for some reason players want to go to NE. Even after all the signings they only have 3 guys with a cap hit over 10 mil, players want to player there and their salaries reflect it. Gronk 6.7mil, Hogan 2.9, and so many more to be named. Meanwhile we have to pay AB and Bell top dollar to stay here. I will say our cap is getting better but we still have to pay big time for guys.

    Now like I said we have never been a big fa team but we need to find guys at bargin prices to help the depth on this team. jmo.
     
  9. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

    20,816
    788
    Oct 16, 2011
    NY response wasn't the only thoughtful one. Theres been plenty to this repeated argument but you never accept any of them so this is what you get now, a wise ass response :beee:


    AND..its already dead, gonna put its head in your bed next.
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 2
  10. 58stillers

    58stillers Well-Known Member

    1,290
    53
    Nov 14, 2011
    I think free agency is just a time where fans can speculate about how good or bad the moves were in the slow offseason time. We haven't had huge success in free agents under Colbert, arguably James Farrior and Ryan Clark were his best ones, nothing else to really to write home about. We can see gaping holes in our losses, but not sure who if anyone will step up come season opening. I'm not terribly concerned with the lack of signings.
     
  11. JackAttack 5958

    JackAttack 5958 Well-Known Member

    8,224
    283
    Oct 18, 2011
    And part of Denver's strong pass rush came from Demarcus Ware, another key free agent signing. As long as we continue to remain status quo with the Antwon Blakes of the world, Brady (and others) will continue to torch our "bargain basement" secondary. Artie Burns is a good building block but I think he mostly exceeded expectations in year one. Cockrell is so highly thought of the Steelers are practically begging him to sign with another team based on their offer. Based on where the league is today, the secondary (and pass rush) is perhaps the most important unit on the field. It continues to be our biggest deficiency and it's Kevin Colbert's job to figure out how to fix it!
     
  12. steel1031

    steel1031 Well-Known Member

    3,062
    112
    Oct 16, 2011
    I am not a cap expert by no means but it occurs to me that we have a ton of money to pay out next 2 years. Shazier, Tuitt, dupree, bell, and I know gilbert is paying attention to these deals rt are getting

    I was hoping for Hightower but in long run probably best. Unless we get him.lol
     
  13. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

    20,816
    788
    Oct 16, 2011
    Most teams that have cap space is because they suck. Obviously NE doesn't suck but I know Bradys deal has something to do with it. Already had like 3 SB's at the time of his last contract and his wife makes more money then he does. Money wasn't an issue for him, could give the team a very friendly deal.

    Steelers pay their stars, and Ben, AB and Bell aren't the only ones, just the biggest. I have zero complaints about lack of moves in free agency. They were knocking on the door last year, they can get there with Ben before he retires, doing it the Steelers way.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Very Optimistic Very Optimistic x 1
  14. JackAttack 5958

    JackAttack 5958 Well-Known Member

    8,224
    283
    Oct 18, 2011
    Unfortunately the "Steelers way" works until they run up against the "Patriots way" and Tom Brady continues to have his way against our pathetic Goodwill defensive backs!
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  15. steel1031

    steel1031 Well-Known Member

    3,062
    112
    Oct 16, 2011
    I am confused. I agree with what you are saying. sometimes they need to hit a homerun in free agency. but who was that this year? Gilmore? I love the fact that they don't just sign someone to sign someone. I mean who is a real difference maker? would you give up a first rounder for butler?
     
  16. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

    3,242
    250
    Apr 21, 2016
    I do understand your frustration Jack. Having to go toe to toe with New England, only to lose, is far worse than pulling ones teeth at the dentist. Not fun.


    However, since the merger, there is a reason why Pittsburgh has been successful. Better yet, since 1990, both the Patriots and Steelers own the NFL's two best records. Both teams have different ways to improve their teams. This is a universal truth.


    Within the same vein, both contrasting ways have lead to success.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. JackAttack 5958

    JackAttack 5958 Well-Known Member

    8,224
    283
    Oct 18, 2011
    Gilmore and Bouye were two upper tier DBs that would have been nice additions this year. Name the last top tier free agent CB we've signed. Exactly zero. I'm not a capologist and I understand the realities of the salary cap, but it's not my job to figure out how to get top notch corners to Pittsburgh, it's Kevin Colbert's. He gets paid the big bucks to manage the cap and figure out how to field a defensive secondary to at least compete with Tom Brady when we go up against him. Otherwise his 98% completion percentage and 500/0 TD/INT ratio will continue.
     
  18. RPO IZSB

    RPO IZSB Well-Known Member

    1,580
    182
    Dec 30, 2015
    That's not a very well thought out understanding of the Cockrell tender.
     
  19. RPO IZSB

    RPO IZSB Well-Known Member

    1,580
    182
    Dec 30, 2015
    It's amazing how little is said about the massive discount Brady has been giving to the Patriots each year for the last decade... it makes a huge difference. Brady has been saving the Patriots between 10-15 million in cap space every year by taking well below market deals.

    Tom Brady is not only the best player in the league, but he continually agrees to a contract that is essentially a "+1 additional pro bowler"
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  20. JackAttack 5958

    JackAttack 5958 Well-Known Member

    8,224
    283
    Oct 18, 2011
    Educate me. :hmm:

    I am serious and not just being my normal, smart aleck self, lol.

    By all accounts, it was a lower tender than many thought he would receive. I'm not saying the team was wrong. I'm just saying that it's an indication of what they truly think about Cockrell's ability.
     
  21. troybellringer55

    troybellringer55 Well-Known Member

    2,389
    129
    Nov 17, 2011
    Nothing new here Steelers are never usually big players in Free Agency. Not to say that they haven't had some good Free Agency signing over the years. Jeff Hartings, James Farrior, and Ryan Clark were all very good ones.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  22. RPO IZSB

    RPO IZSB Well-Known Member

    1,580
    182
    Dec 30, 2015
    here's what I posted in a previous thread regarding the tender:



    "The Steelers have taken this gamble many times. They did the same thing with Emmanuel Sanders (orig. round tender). He got an offersheet, they matched it.

    It's like this. The Steelers have a number at which they are willing to pay Ross, like they did with Sanders. But to create the POTENTIAL for additional cap space, they are willing to bet that no other team will exceed the high end of what they are willing to commit to Ross. If someone offers him something in their range, they will match (like they did with Sanders). If someone does NOT make that offer, they have successfully created additional cap space this season.

    So basically... everything you said is wrong. It IS strategy, not simple value. If they didn't value Ross, they wouldn't have tendered him at all. You actually think their analysis is "Ross is worth 1.8 Million BUT NOT 2.7 Million..no way is he worth 900k more"....
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  23. steel1031

    steel1031 Well-Known Member

    3,062
    112
    Oct 16, 2011
    Would you be willing to lose one of these 3 for one of those Corners? Bell, Tuitt, shazier? Cause we only have so much to spend
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  24. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

    2,411
    239
    Dec 10, 2012
    Ok first your right Ware was a FA signing, but guess what we never sign FA. Our best FA I can remember is Farrior and that wasn't a big signing. Now onto Cockrell, You are looking at it from a different position. I feel this is a great move, he is a RFA and we put the original pick tender on him. If nobody matches we get a great deal for a player who have been pretty good. Now if a team wants him which who knows I haven't heard anything we get to match it or we get another draft pick in a highly rich CB draft class. While you think the Steelers are "begging" another team I think the Steelers are doing what they do best and that is not over pay.

    I agree that pass defense and pass rush are very important in todays NFL, I also feel that while you are looking at the last game vs the Cheats let me point out a few things. Remember Cam Heyward....yeah he didn't play, also we have been the laughing stock of the league trying to get to brady with a 2 man pass rush and playing zone. I think a better game plan, a healthy Heyward and an upgrade over Timmons(gone) and Gay in pass coverage is gonna help. Oh and yeah our offense was pretty banged up as well so that was another factor a lot of people over look.

    I will go back and point out if we run the kind of offense that we did in the 4th quater of the Raven game and the 1st half of the Dolphin game we are unstoppable, jmo.
     
  25. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

    6,000
    400
    Nov 4, 2011
    We signed the game-changing Justin Hunter for crying out loud! What are you whining about Jack? :hehehe:
     

Share This Page

Welcome to the ultimate resource for Steelers fans. Sign Up Here!