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Where does reality lay?

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Stone, Feb 21, 2019.

  1. KnoxVegasSteel

    KnoxVegasSteel Well-Known Member

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    There isn't an appropriate emoji to express how much I agree with this statement!
     
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  2. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    I'd rather be drafting top 5 than 20th.....
     
  3. AFan

    AFan Well-Known Member

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    The Rooney rule is irrelevant at this point regarding Tomlin's job security. The rule only requires that you interview a minority for a HC vs vacancy, it doesn't guarantee lifetime job security. Plenty of minority HCs, all hired after Tonlin, have been fired. If they're keeping Tomlin around, it's because they want to, not because they're bound by some 'rule' that doesn't apply in his current circumstance.
     
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  4. Jball

    Jball Well-Known Member

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    The reality is, in a little over a year, we have lost 3 All-Pro's in their prime. Not Pro-Bowlers, All-Pro's. And we should still be a serious threat to win the division next year. I think that says something about this "doomed" organization.
     
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  5. Steel Hog

    Steel Hog Well-Known Member

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    I wish that were all there was to it unless you think our defense is where it should be and our special teams really isn't the worst in the NFL Penalties, discipline, coaching, etc,etc,etc. I think we have much more to do to get back to whee we want to go. I am not saying we can't overcome these but there are a few more to consider than Bos and Ben. .
     
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  6. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82 Bitter optimist

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    I don't particularly disagree with what you've said in your post, and I'm always fairly optimistic about our chances (even if its sometimes through gritted teeth).

    But I think issues with Ben as a "leader" have been charted at several points in his career. Whether it's justified or not, it's not a new allegation.
     
  7. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    Still waiting for you to back up anything you said about Rooney?
     
  8. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    The Rooney Rule is ignorant because any favoritism of any race, or group of races, over any other race, or group of races, is racism and racism is ignorant.

    He can't be fired because our "story hungry" media would crucify the Rooney's and the Steelers for hypocrisy! If they fired Tomlin the media would go on and on about for two years. Every breath the organization would take would be under a micro-scope and wins and loses would never make the light of day.

    You can't go lobby for something on a grand stage and then go against what you lobbied for once the world has accepted your cause.
     
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  9. SteelerGlenn

    SteelerGlenn

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    I don't thing there would be any justified backlash from firing Tomlin. The rule is to get minority coaches an opportunity not to keep anyone indefinitely.
     
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  10. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    That's how the rule is written but the basis of it to promote minorities and you can't jump on your soapbox and piss and moan and whine about something and then go against the basis of it later. The difference with other minority HC's is that they were not hired by the guy who forced the rule on the rest of the league; Tomlin was.
     
  11. SteelerGlenn

    SteelerGlenn

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    The basis of the rule is to give minorities a chance that they maybe would not gotten otherwise. It's not to then employ someone indefinitely.
    I don't see a problem. The Rooney's have honored the rule that they fought for.
     
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  12. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure we will never know because they won't fire him but I would bet everything I have and everything I will ever make that the media would make an obnoxiously huge deal of it if they did.
     
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  13. jeh1856

    jeh1856 Beer is good

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    Personally, if Tomlin has been fired at the end of this season I believe it would have been taken as a good business move. Not a word of Rooney Rule would be mentioned. As it shouldn’t be since it would be irrelevant.
     
  14. santeesteel

    santeesteel

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    Shenanigans!
    If the Rooneys were to fire Tomlin, who's to say they wouldn't hire another minority?
    As Glenn said, the rule doesn't guarantee someone a job, just an interview.
     
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  15. AFan

    AFan Well-Known Member

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    Are you suggesting that in his heart of hearts, Art II really want to fire Tomlin, but backs off because of fear of media backlash or the appearance of firing a guy hired under his dad's rule?

    Because I see precious little evidence of that. Rooney's keeping Tonlim because he wants to. It's as simple as that. No losing season, 13-3 last yr, second most wins since '07; you've heard all the reasons. Maybe the 'stay-the-course' Rooney family reallyputs it's trust in all that. Even if some fans don't.
     
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  16. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82 Bitter optimist

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    Exactly.

    Also, and this may have already been said, but the Steelers fulfilled the rule when they interviewed Ron Rivera.

    Surely, if they were worried about backlash, they would have given Rivera the job? He was certainly better known than Tomlin at the time.
     
  17. Steel Hog

    Steel Hog Well-Known Member

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    You're probably right about the media, but who cares about them? They are in it for the money and drama whether real or manufactured by themselves. Besides, they are wrong on just about everything unless you use their advice on betting. I think we are getting opportunity and favoritism mixed up. They way I understand it, Rooney rule just promotes having at least one minority to be included in the interview process. It doesn't specify quota's or other hiring demands, just including others to interview. Hiring a less qualified minority over others more qualified, then you'd have favoritism and that would be wrong.
     
  18. BK99

    BK99 Well-Known Member

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    I think the above quote is spot on. He wasn't fired because all the stats and evidence points to him being a good coach and the Rooney's "stay the course" philosophy. That said, there was a lot of talk about Tomlin not being as good as what the stats indicate given the rosters he has had to work with, the only one who had issue with that was Stephen A Smith who suggested if Tomlin was white nobody would even think of firing Tomlin nor would it even be suggested.

    The stats don't lie but there is a lot of issues that are direct result of his inabilities as a HC, like the poor clock management and his challenges, things a HC should improve at over 12 seasons but he seems to get worse. Then you have the issue of consistency, under Tomlin the only consistency is the team being inconsistent. Players like Watt coming out and saying they were lackadaisical and didn't even prepare for the opponent until Friday makes complete sense as to why a 7-2 team misses the playoffs.

    We all know the locker room issues under Tomlin, but the stats also give a lot of reason for him to be gone. Yes, the winning percentage is great but playoff win percentage isn't good, he has the worst record against sub .500 teams than all the winning HCs combined. He has failed at rebuilding the defense and has 6 seasons in which to do so, and while Colbert is responsible for draft picks and FAs Tomlin has to sign off on those players.

    I think the winning percentage is why they Rooney's still have him on board and not because of the Rooney rule. I also think this may be Tomlin's last season here if the team doesn't make the playoffs again, not extending him this year (so far) is a big indicator and Tomlin has to see the writing on the wall. Even if they miss the playoffs it is still possible they keep Tomlin but I'm predicting they won't, I believe this is make of break for him, especially if they continue to have distractions in a losing effort.
     
  19. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    So true, so true! But......whether we like it or not, the media controls life....unfortunately!

    My only point is that whether it's because he hesitates to fire Tomlin due to media backlash or because he, personally, would never fire Tomlin even if he went 0-16, it puts unfair stress on the management of the team. But the bottom line is that as Art II has methodically gained control, the Steelers have methodically moved away from the once proud franchise.
     
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  20. Busman

    Busman

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    Such hog wash to come from Stephen A Smiths mouth. I am pretty sure he just spews garbage to expand his audience. If he honestly believed this crap I would then say he is dumber then first thought.
     
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  21. KMM

    KMM Well-Known Member

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    Yep. As noted you can't even say Tomlin was a Rooney Rule hire much less Rooney Rule non-fireable.

    There were 5 black HC's fired this season and only one hired and there was barely a peep from the media. Mild criticism at best and certainly no firestorm.

    To think that somehow Tomlin is protected because he's black is ridiculous. He's protected by the Rooney Way not the Rooney Rule.
     
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  22. OX1947

    OX1947 Well-Known Member

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    The reality is Mike Tomlin is incapable of having the Steelers ready to play week in and week out. Talent is always there. Colbert drafts well. The last 10 years, there seems to be a drop in development.

    People keep looking at stats to help their argument. I use what I see on game day. And that's what matters.
     
  23. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    Not to mention that fact that Stephen A Smith is one of the biggest racists on the planet!
     
  24. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    Quite frankly, I am sick and tired of the Mikey and Artie apologists who offer nothing other than blind faith, and that faith is based on a tradition which was established by others, and being dismantled by Rooney and Tomlin.

    I challenge any of the people here, or anywhere, to show evidence of why they believe that the Steelers will magically right this ship. The circus that has become the Steelers is not a one time thing or a comedy of errors. This mess has been methodically building for a number of years and shows absolutely zero evidence of changing. The Ab fiasco is not new, it has been building for years. The LB fiasco is not new, it has been building for years. Players bitching about other players is not new, it has been building for years. The me, me, me mentality of players is not new, it has been building for years. The Martavis Bryant issue lingered until it came to a head just like every other piece of the dramatic pie.

    And as ox1947 pointed out, Tomlin simply doesn't have the team ready to play despite extreme talent and his playoff record is poor ..... And Art II doesn't understand what all the talk is about?

    "Roonatic" .... Don't just hide behind the disagree button, give us some evidence of why you have undying faith?
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
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  25. tyler christopher

    tyler christopher Well-Known Member

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    Reality is this----- Wake up rooneys... If your gonna give Ben a new contract then you better realize there is small window and go for it..... Get a corner free agent to match with haden and get a receiver to match with JUJU in FREEE agency..... We still have an incredible offensive line and that is the hardest thing to build right in all of sports...... GO for it rooneys. Do not rely on the draft. We have not picked up a great cornerback in draft since rod woodson.....
     
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