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Where does reality lay?

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Stone, Feb 21, 2019.

  1. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    I have always known that I am just a fan. Having been behind closed doors of some large businesses, I have also known that what is said in front of closed doors is very, very, different than what is said behind them. So we as fans truly have no clue what goes on behind the closed doors of the Steelers or any other NFL team.

    When I look at the direction of the Steelers I see a very ugly future, yet I read posts saying "it's just fine", "just wait and see", "Rooney will fix it", etc. but I have yet to read anything of solid logic that makes me breath a little easier. Other than the history of Steelers, I see nothing but arrows pointing down.

    BUT! On this site, the optimism is often beaten down before it can be heard so I am hoping that we can have a thread where we point out logical indicators rather than "you're full of ****". For my own benefit, I really want to read some positive indicators!

    Anybody who has logic or knowledge that will make me feel better, PLEASE POST IT HERE!

    Here is what I see and why I am depressed about the Steelers:

    It starts with my disgust for the NFL in general but that ship ain't being rerouted! I have ranted with friends and family as we watch games for three to four years now how I despised the lack of discipline on the field and the theatrics off the field; all of which are the HC's job to coral. I predicted the current implosion three years ago.

    On the field, I saw countless games where our chances to win were diminished buy lack of discipline.
    Mike Michell's late hits.
    Artie Burns being totally out of position at least five times per game.
    The entire defense running around barking orders at each other at the time of the snap.
    False starts.
    Untimely, and un-necessary, DPI penalties.
    Poor choices of red flag challenges.
    Poor clock management.


    Off the field, our dirty laundry was making the news and this is diametrically opposed to the Steelers culture.
    The Martavis Bryant fiasco.
    Ben talking too much.
    Ben and Haley feuding.
    Bell and Blount caught smoking.
    Bell holding out.
    Bell holding out again (all season)
    James Harrison showing his true colors.
    Brown becoming more and more of a distraction.

    Don't just tell me I'm wrong, show me I'm wrong! PLEASE!
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2019
  2. Steel Hog

    Steel Hog Well-Known Member

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    I don't think anyone can SHOW anyone else that they are right or wrong. I can't see what's behind the organizations doors either. I will agree with all that you've said and In my opinion its a sign the NFL is on a course of self destruction. The idiots the Steelers have were created due to having to much success rather than not enough. Players that are considered the best in the NFL are the ones currently our biggest headache. Coupled with a spineless and/or appeasing or.enabling coaching staff and the result is what it is. Things happened under Cowher as well but with competitive instant media BS, its seems amplified more today then back then. The 2019 season will be either hitting rock bottom or the turning point of this team. I think its 50/50 right now which in itself is not good.
     
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  3. Lambert

    Lambert Well-Known Member

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    The reality is, this team could be very good this year without too many major roster adjustments... but it will take changes the owner has not show he is capable of making. Tomlin is aimless and needs to go, taking Butler with him. Brown needs to GTFO. They finally woke up on Bell a year too late. They need to be more creative in FA and the draft and cut bait on the failures (see: Burns, Artie).

    Ben, a very good OL, Juju, James, solid TEs, and a few other useful parts, plus some new toys, should make for a good offense. An impact player in the front 7 and improving the DBs would go a long way too. They have to find someone to actually use that talent well though and Tomlin certainly is not that guy.
     
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  4. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    I think it is becoming more of an accepted reality that Tomlin is not the guy, but given the ignorance of the Rooney Rule, what options are there?

    They can't fire him; I doubt if they want to. I don't think they could convince him to retire even if they wanted to. Demanding he become something he is not won't work. So I guess the only hope is that he can improve some on field discipline issues and communications enough to overcome the three ring circus?
     
  5. santeesteel

    santeesteel

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    How, exactly, is the "Rooney rule" ignorant? Why can't he be fired?
    I don't have any evidence other than the fact that the Steelers are my team and I have faith in them! People worry WAY too much about crap they have no control over. It's football! If it stresses you out this much, follow a different sport!
     
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  6. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    The sky is falling.

    Most of you calling for Art to pull the plug should consider becoming Buc fans. Their ownership does everything that is wanted by you chicken littles every three years. SMH
     
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  7. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    You keep making such statements but you are yet to offer any logic, evidence, proof, or even suggestions as to why? What is it about Art II's track record makes you think the way you do?

    Remember when we were all kids and we believed that "nobody" could be tougher than our daddy? I think you have daddy issues! My daddy can beat up your daddy!
     
  8. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    Optimism how? It's just Glenn saying we are all babies.

    near future looks bleak but who knows maybe this team makes a turn around, i guess that's why we watch we just don't know.
     
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  9. SteelerJJ

    SteelerJJ Well-Known Member

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    It's a down period, sort of but it's not as if we are a 2-14 team. The future isn't as bleak as some make it seem. If Boswell to gets his head out of his four quarter point of contract and Ben doesn't lead the league in INT's, we'll be fine.
     
  10. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    yes, for last year. There are many variables that will be taken account for this upcoming year.

    1. Losing Brown is huge, some forget the impact he has on this offense.

    2. Conner has to stay healthy

    3. if Ben doesnt throw too many picks and bos doesnt miss much we will be ok.
     
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  11. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    You never know right? I think if players and coaches actually learned some valuable lessons from all this we can use it to our advantage. Sadly though after hearing Colbert say that we are gonna pay Dud 9 million dollars and endorsed Ben's open season on teammates ,I have very little hope. The standard certainly seems to be the standard and not in a good way. Can they drug test GMs? Should they?
     
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  12. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    In hindsight 2-14 would be better right now. We could use some restocking of the shelves....
     
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  13. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    yeah we are stuck in purgatory right now and it sucks lol. I don't mind some down years if it truly means a legit contender in the future.
     
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  14. uncblue012

    uncblue012 Well-Known Member

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    I'm actually slowly becoming more positive, especially since Bryant, Bell and soon-to-be Brown, are now gone. They were all so talented but complete cancers to the overall view of the team. I hope we see a more disciplined team that plays less selfishly. The Browns are going to be good, the Ravens will be solid and the Bengals... who knows, but Pittsburgh will likely be good again. The only real change will be the loss of AB, and he HAS to be replaced by a competent receiver. Otherwise, we should be good.
     
  15. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    Stone, sorry I'm not buying your sinking ship theories. Are you running out of material? What does my deceased father have to do with me laughing at your doomsday scenarios? He was a Lions fan by the way, he had a couple of good years in the 50s but always rooted for them. Never heard him blame anything that sticks to the wall on why they cannot make it to the SB.
    Heres an idea, instead of regurgitating all the naysaying of the last half-decade put some thought into your posts. Have your brain work as fast as your mouth.
     
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  16. 86WardsWay

    86WardsWay Well-Known Member

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    After this fiasco, we will either be 2-14 or 14-2.

    It's up to the players remaining to decide.

    Coaches have no clue.
     
  17. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    How many losing seasons has Ben had?
     
  18. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    :beathorse:
     
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  19. 86WardsWay

    86WardsWay Well-Known Member

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    None that I've seen but he will literally have to take total control over his team for it to accomplish anything. They should just put Tomlin up in the booth and put Butler on the ferry down to the Gulf of Mexico. If either of them are calling the shots we will be drafting top 5 in 2020.
     
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  20. KnoxVegasSteel

    KnoxVegasSteel Well-Known Member

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    Reality? Who needs that shyte? At least our guys arent being arrested for committing hate crimes against themselves.
     
  21. santeesteel

    santeesteel

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    Maybe that's what Bell should do next. After all, he's not happy with his salary either!
     
  22. Iowasteeljim

    Iowasteeljim

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    Here I will help...We are the great Phoenix rising out of the ashes. We will soar high above the competition and rain down destruction (no we will not unleash Hell...we all know where that got us). We will right all the wrongs, get back on course, start the day anew, hold our heads high, make the best of a given situation, crawl before we walk, walk before we run, we will throw our butts up in the sky and turn them into sunshine. Now you should all have warm fuzzies! Why am I not being paid to be a motivational speaker? This s**t is gold! That does it...good bye message board...I am officially too good for the rest of you! (why is there no mic drop smiley? That would have really been appropriate here!)
     
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  23. CK 13

    CK 13 Well-Known Member

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    We will see. If Art II doesn't give Tomlin the extension this could be the beginning of the end in which would be fine with me. And Butler should have been gone.

    Your popcorn pom poms are showing. Give us some beef why Tomlin should be retained? And don't give me the whole "Well, he has never had a losing season" junk.
     
  24. Danthesteelersman

    Danthesteelersman Well-Known Member

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    For me I'm optimistic short term, next 2, 3 seasons. Long term I am worried. Long term we are about to lose Ben and our Oline is all 29 + and I expect to see a new HC within that time. But lets be positive and talk short term.

    Lets start off the field.

    I am thrilled to be rid of the cancers that are Bell and Brown. Having played hockey and football at a high level(not pro) and with my experiences there I know that locker room chemistry is very understated especially in football as it's the ultimate team game. I'm optimistic that the removal of both those "me guys" will help the TEAM dynamic, not to mention the yield that AB is likely to return for trade. A positive locker room and sideline and less drama off the field will help the product on the field guaranteed.

    I don't buy that Ben is a problem. He's been the QB for 14 years and only reportedly been a problem since Bell and Brown have been there? Yeah, I'll stick to agreeing with Colbert saying that players should listen to Ben when he speaks. There's this misconception that Ben throws his players under the bus. Yes he's called out some guys but anyone who says Ben doesn't take responsibility for his miscues, isn't watching post game. I see it all the time.

    The other thing off the field that we should be optimistic about is that we have significant cap space. I know we aren't traditionally aggressive in FA but we are also in uncharted territory with the amount of cap space we have. With the Ben window is closing, losing AB and an aging Oline I expect us to go outside the lines of the norm this off season and use the money we have. This is a defense heavy FA class, Earl Thomas, Tyran Mathieu, Joyner, Anthony Barr, CJ Mosely, Frank Clark, Clowney, Dee Ford. I expect we sign 1 or 2 game changers on defense or obtain in trade for AB


    Here are some stats that lead to my optimism on the field

    I've always felt Bell was good but not the likes of guys such as Saquon Zeke Gurley, Peterson in his hayday. He's very replaceable, #30 was on pace to surpass Bells best statistical season before he got concussion. Wasn't the same after that. I've said it before. Our Run game is a product of having a hof qb hof wr and top 3 oline. The ONLY attribute where I think Bell clearly excels over #30 is in pass protection and even that was shown not to be missed as Ben was only sacked 24 times vs seasons of 42 33 20 17 21 with Bell. Oline also key here obviously, I think we should resign Foster IF the price is reasonable to maintain the chemistry, if not, his replacement has proven to be worthy of a starting spot.

    With respect to losing AB. He's tough to replace, almost an irreplaceable connection between he and Ben . Can JUJU be a true # 1 ? I think so and here is why...


    Small sample size but relevant

    Juju stats in games without AB or Bell

    2017 week 16 vs Texans on Road

    6 Catches 75 Yards 1TD

    Bell played 1 half

    2017 week 17 vs Browns

    9 catches 143 Yard 1TD

    Bell did not play

    2018 Week 17 vs Browns

    5 Catches 37 Yards 1 TD

    JUJU has already shown he can line up with the # 1 corner. He and AB are completely different physically. AB wins with his speed, Juju with size and strength. He will fine #1 especially with a decent proven #2 which I think needs to be obtained via FA, Golden Tate or Tyrell Williams come to mind, maybe even Randal Cobb . We can't expect Juju to be AB but the Steelers always find receivers, Ben always produces no matter who is at WR. Keep in mind that throughout his career, its not like AB has been the only receiver on the field for defenses to focus. He's had Sanders Wallace and Hines Ward lined up with him up until 2014. Then Bryant for 2 good years before he went rogue, and now the last 2 seasons hes had JUJU (not to mention our run game has always been strong).

    Its also worth pointing out that, again small sample, but in 5 games played without Ben in his career AB averages 4.8 catches for 68 yards and only scored twice. For his career (including those 5 games) he averages 8 catches for 108 yards and .75 touchdowns a game. I've said it before I'll say it again, AB is not the greatest of route runners, He's fast as hell and has crazy feet and amazing hands. But to me its Ben's and the oline's ability to extend plays that is the key to his success in my opinion. We've seen a ton of Ints thrown towards AB where he ran a terrible route, and Ben forcing him the ball. Now we know why those forces occur. I don't see AB, at this stage of his career being nearly as successful with another QB. There is a chemistry between he and Ben on the field that can't be duplicated.

    Ben has only played 3 games in his career without AB since 2013 when AB became a full time starter. He Had over 300 yards twice and 240 Yards in the other. Ben will be fine as we've seen in the past and I actually feel optimistic that now that AB won't be in the mix demanding his numbers, that Ben will spread the ball around a lot more and use Vance more. It goes back to my comment at the beginning, I don't think it can be over stated that locker room chemistry and a TEAM mindset is more important that overall talent. Can have all the talent in the world but if its a bunch of "me guys" that doesn't help you. Everyone has to buy in.

    My 2 cents
     
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  25. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    We all want a mike drop. :cool:
     
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