When do we start using the "B" word (BUST) with...

...Lawrence Timmons. It seems to me that every year Timmons has his praises sung and every year he seems to disappoint. Not that he's a bad player, but at this point I would label him as mediocre. The Steelers don't draft linebackers in the first round to be mediocre, they draft linebackers in the first round to be spectacular and to carry on the reputation and performance of a long list of great Steeler linebackers.

My observations in watching Timmons are that he seems to take bad angles (see Peyton Manning's impersonation of Tim Tebow on Sunday night), gets handled pretty easily by one blocker, misses tackles, and just generally seems to play soft. Again, these observations are coming from a casual fan so for those of you that do more in depth analyses of games I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.

Tomlin has a vested interest in Timmons' success since he was Coach T's first draft pick, but at this point Timmons has been a disappointment. I hope that changes and he's able to become the spectacular player that he's been touted to be, but at this point I'm not seeing it.

 

I agree. Anything less than spectacular from a first round pick is unacceptable. And if he does not live up to the reputation of past Steeler linebackers, like Lambert, Kirkland, or Farrior, then he is not fit for this team. I also think that they gave him that contract not because of what they think of the way he plays, but because they are covering their asses for drafting him 5 years ago. They don't want to look foolish, right? So they pissed away $50 million or whatever it was. That's how the Steelers do business. Bust.

 

Tomlin has a vested interest in every player on the team's success, surely? Because that means we win, right?

 

Hahaha

 

My sarcasm meter started chirping loudly when I read this. I happen to know you're very forgiving when it comes to our former first round picks.

 

Is "forgiving" the right word? I hold them to the standard of play, and the standard of first round picks for the entire league, not to the standard of the ridiculously, crazily, larger than life and overwhelmingly successful picks that Kevin Colbert has produced such as Hampton, Pouncey, Miller, DeCastro, and oh yeah, TROY POLAMALU AND BEN ROETHLISBERGER. It's easy to think all our picks should be that good. If Troy was taken at 16, shouldn't Timmons be better than him at 15? If Woodley was taken in the 2nd, shouldn't Timmons be better in the 1st? Using our own success to make ourselves look bad is so, so retarded, and so, so common here.

Timmons is not living up to expectations. But he is living up to his status. That's the bottom line for me. So is it a bad thing? And whose fault is it?

 

Can't disagree with this. I never liked Florida State players anyway. Especially linebackers. Didn't Alonzo Jackson come out of Florida State?

 

Tomlin has predicted a "scathing" response and I am assuming that response is supposed to come from me.

Sorry to disappoint you, Tomlin, but my response will probably be less than scathing. Boy, that "B" word gets some people cranked up on this board, doesn't it? Now that you've gotten your typical smarta(leck) and sarcastic response out of the way, Snack, what do you see in Timmons game that would cause you to say that he's anything but a disappointment? I gave you my observations above but of course my observations are pretty anemic when compared with your in-depth game by game analysis of every player on the team. Bust may be a little too strong a word at this point in his career, but you've got to agree with me (for maybe the first time ever) that Timmons has been a disappointment and has not lived up to the lofty expectations so many had for him when he was drafted number one.

(And by the way, you're so predictable )

 

I have been pretty clear about it in this thread and in others. There's the sticky thread that you were probably alluding to. That's for his 2011 season. I'll be doing another one for 2012. You can also go back and look for threads started by cajunyankee.

You're predictable too, but in a much more depressing and lazy way.

 

Well, I guess it's either that you stop reading my posts, which you are MORE THAN WELCOME to do, or go on anti-depressant meds. As for the lazy part, I probably should not have even started this thread because I'm actually trying to get out of the office and go home for dinner. That's right, Snack, I do happen to be gainfully employed and I'm doing my part to try to keep this sorry excuse of an economy running. Now you may also be gainfully employed as well but given the in-depth analysis you seem to do on a daily basis AND the fact that you are always monitoring this board (for the "stupid" opinions of lazy, uninformed vermin like me), you apparently have a job that gives you way too much time on your hands.

 

Well, I guess it's either that you stop reading my posts, which you are MORE THAN WELCOME to do, or go on anti-depressant meds. As for the lazy part, I probably should not have even started this thread because I'm actually trying to get out of the office and go home for dinner. That's right, Snack, I do happen to be gainfully employed and I'm doing my part to try to keep this sorry excuse of an economy running. Now you may also be gainfully employed as well but given the in-depth analysis you seem to do on a daily basis AND the fact that you are always monitoring this board (for the "stupid" opinions of lazy, uninformed vermin like me), you apparently have a job that gives you way too much time on your hands.[/quote:611pfm8u]
Sorry for the mix up. I didn't mean you're a lazy or depressing human, I meant your posts are depressing and lazy. And they totally are. You like to prod hot button issues and get people worked up. This thread is an example of you basically saying, "Now I'm no fancy big city film watcher, but as a casual layman, I think this guy that was just rewarded with a $48 million is a bust of a draft pick. Will someone kindly actually pay attention to the way he plays and tell me all the reasons I'm wrong? I'll just brush it off anyway after you do, but... Oh, and not in the thread at the top of the page. I want you to do it again, in this new thread. Thanks." That's lazy in my book. You like to be negative. You're one of the people that exaggerates things in a negative light instead of a positive light. That's depressing. I get that it's hard to be 100% accurate and honest when you're a fan, but I never get why people are wrong in the negative way. It's like some Steelers fans look at the Steelers the same way I look at the Ravens. But you're not alone. A lot of people like to do what you do. It's irrational and silly, which is something I thought you were happy to admit.

Please speculate more about my personal life. It's fun and I'm curious about what else you've got cooked up in your noggin.

 

LOL! Get your popcorn ready!

 

i dont agree with people that say that exagerating the negative is depressing and negativy on his own , i personally prefer to talk about the negatives than positive because i like to see if there is a problem and if there is a solution .. the good things don't need to be fixed ,the bad need some work . i would love to to find a solution for every our problems ,and this not depressing or negative
btw timmons is not a bust overall is a good player when is at the top form , but sure not what i was expecting from a 15 pick

 

Hey!!! gotta alittle excited there for a minute thought maybe there was some pictures of some BUSTS = "BUSTY BABE'S" i here you about Timmed Timmons

 

Maybe you'll be impressed that I took the time to look this stuff up and I can somehow change your perception of my opinions being lazy and uninformed, oh, and depressing. I have highlighted some of your "expert" analysis below that seems to line up with my claims above that Timmons is, for the most part, a mediocre and somewhat disappointing performer at this point.

Comments from your sticky post:
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1 - Bal 3 -4 0 0 7 8 2 #NAME? All over the place, not in a good way. Worst game I can remember from him.
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2 - Sea 2 2 0 2 6 1 2 0 Good rebound performance after the Ravens game. Looked very good against what is admittedly weaker competition. .
4 - Hou -1 1 0 3 4 2 0 Comment lost by mistake.
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5 - Ten 2 3 0 6 2 2 0 Played entire game at OLB. Held up very well in the running game, with a couple mistakes. Got no QB pressure against Roos, but did perform very well in coverage.
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6 - Jac 0 0 0 5 5 0 0 Safe to say his play at OLB is inconsistent. He mostly looks like he doesn't have all the details down yet like Harrison does. Shows flashes and underwhelmes in the same game. .
7 - Ari 3 0 2 4 0 2 0 "Getting the job done" at OLB. Cannot rush the passer against an OT at all. But he's holding up and making a play or two. Was not effectively targeted in the running game.
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8 - NE 2 1 0 3 1 2 0 Still at OLB. I don't know why they rush him in the traditional way against a LT. He can't get pressure that way. He only kind of had one hurry. But they kept sending him. That seems to be the only real hole in his game at OLB. Otherwise he might be missing some nuances but is getting the job done.
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9 - Bal 3 0 0 5 2 0 0 Solid game, half at ILB half at OLB. Held up surprisingly well at outside. Looked good there. Didn't really rush the passer, but played much better than I expected.
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10 - Cin 1 3 0 0 7 4 2 0 Back at ILB, played a decent game. A lot of blockers in his face, not a lot of plays in the running game. Did get an INT off a tip. Borderline late hit call hurt us.
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13 - Cin 1 0 1 4 3 4 -2 Down and up day. Fine against the pass, looks like he should be more aggressive against the run. He seemed to get that way towards the end of the game, and his numbers picked up.
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16 - StL -2 2 3 8 6 4 -2 Great game statistically, with a ton of tackles. But it seemed like most of them came by tackling receivers that he wasn't covering, like mopping up someone else's mess. Not that that's a bad thing for him, because it's not, it's good. Didn't seem himself in the running game, missing tackles for no good reason. Jackson is a great back, but there were a couple that Timmons just missed on his own.
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17 - Cle 3 2 3 9 1 6 0 Much better today after last week. More aggressive against the run, and it paid off. Looked better at rushing the passer too, and maintained strong coverage all game long. On at least two occasions, he was in man coverage in the slot against Cribbs and Massaquoi. By himself! And had good coverage on both plays.
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WC - Den 2 1 0 6 3 2 0 Mostly alright, but had trouble reading the option.
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Run Defense Pass Defense Pass Rush* ST/Misc. # of + # of - Splash Stink Summary
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Total 19 11 9 2 73 40 30 -4 So did Timmons struggle? At times, I think so. Were the theories about why he struggled true? Sometimes, I think so. His season was interrupted by injuries all around him. He was literally playing the wrong position and the players around him and in front of him weren't as good. He played both OLB positions, and I think he played both ILB positions too. On the outside, he's not a threat to rush the quarterback against an OT, but he is pretty stout against the run and can always drop back into coverage and let the other side rush. On the inside he had ups and downs. He seemed to sometimes play the run tentatively, like he didn't want to make a mistake. The result is usually that he is there to make the tackle, but it's too far downfield. Or maybe I'm just being picky. At other times he plays more aggressive, and he looks much better that way. He's good in pass coverage, getting into drops, covering ground...
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...and taking man coverage on difficult assignments. He's a pretty good blitzer when it's a real blitz, but he can't just rush an OT like a "real" OLB, because they just eat him up. He's best isolated on a TE or RB. However, he is feared by offenses as a blitzer, maybe just because of his speed and hitting ability -- they don't want to let that guy get a free hit on their QB with a running start. I saw plenty of occasions where he blitzed and two linemen let their guy go in order to block Timmons, freeing up one or more other defenders to get pressure. In Timmons I see a really good player who is a slow grower. He's not living up to superstar expectations that some people have, but he's still a good starter at worst who could become a Pro Bowler at best. We already saw that from him in 2010. He's a very valuable asset to have, particularly in the passing game. Not everyone has a tool like him in the toolbox.
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O v e r a l l S c o r e s Frequency Big Play Scores


Shew! That was a lot of hard work. Now admittedly, you did have quite a few positive things to say about Timmons as well, but when you boil it all down the negatives are at least equivalent to the positives. Your analysis above seems to suggest that Lawrence Timmons IS A MEDIOCRE LINEBACKER who does have some flashes which would indicate that he could do better but overall seems to underperform. Some of my comments were:
1) He seems to be handled easily by one blocker at times.
You seemed to be agreeing with my "lazy fan analysis" when you said:
Cannot rush the passer against an OT at all
Got no QB pressure against Roos
I don't know why they rush him in the traditional way against a LT. He can't get pressure that way
On the outside, he's not a threat to rush the quarterback against an OT
he can't just rush an OT like a "real" OLB, because they just eat him up

2) I also said he seems to take bad angles at times.
Again, you seemed to agree when you said:
All over the place, not in a good way. Worst game I can remember from him.
Safe to say his play at OLB is inconsistent. He mostly looks like he doesn't have all the details down yet like Harrison does. Shows flashes and underwhelmes in the same game.
looks like he should be more aggressive against the run
Didn't seem himself in the running game, missing tackles for no good reason

Again, I realize that I am only pointing out the negative and not the positive analysis, but we fans do tend to do that at times. Your analysis (which was very good, by the way) seems to suggest that Timmons is a bit inconsistent, I used the word mediocre, that he does struggle against one on one blocking, and that he does seem to be "all over the place" and at times does not seem aggressive in the running game, missing tackles, etc. which often comes from taking bad angles.

It appears that we may agree about more than you seem to want to admit based on some of your comments above (oh no, you're really going to need anti-depressant meds now) but the first thing you want to do when you see one of my posts is to rip it to shreds with your sharp-witted sarcasm and exert your superiority when it comes to "analyzing" players.

Timmons is a good player as I said. But the expectations that have been put out there by the coaching staff, his teammates and the media have simply not been met. This guy was supposed to be the Troy P of Steeler linebackers. He may be the Ryan Clark of Steeler linebackers and be a solid performer, but his play overall, as your analysis seems to suggest, has been very inconsistent and mediocre.

 

I have expected more out of Timmons and he is way overpaid the team would've been better off spending that money on the secondary.

 

I am SO glad to see people on here who agree with me! I've always thought Timmons was a bust. I think the next one we're gonna be calling a bust is Cam Heyward. I think the problem with Timmons is the fact that he's a product of a 4-3 and we don't play that. I've got a friend that like FSU and he said that he thinks of Timmons as a 4-3 guy. I know that Tomlin personally prefers the 4-3 as well and maybe he thought Lebeau wouldn't stick around for as long as he has and maybe then Timmons would be the kind of guy that Tomlin would like to have. Who knows? But YES HE IS A BUST! If you're gonna be a 1st rounder you need to be a total IMPACT player.

 

I said what I need to say about Timmons, and I stand by it. As you said yourself, you highlighted the bad things and not the good. I never tried to hide it. I'll take that black to red ratio.

But when you get to the expectations, you're mixing your own with the team's. Who thought he was going to be as good as Troy? That's insane. Some fans were expecting that, but that's it. I'd say there's a 0% chance that's what the coaches were expecting, considering he was drafted to play OLB and not ILB. It's fantastic that it worked out that he's much better suited to play inside and that's where we had an opening, but that wasn't the plan when we drafted him. Personally, I didn't want him at the time, for a couple of reasons. I wanted Revis like everyone else, and I wanted Willis. But mostly I wanted an ILB and not an OLB. We're extra lucky that Woodley worked out as well as he did, because that saved us what would have been years of trying to force a square peg Timmons into a round hole at OLB.

I'm confused by some of your words. Since when are "inconsistent" and "mediocre" the same thing? Ben Roethlisberger is inconsistent and he's also among the best in the league. Many would say he's elite. Timmons can definitely be inconsistent, but that doesn't make him mediocre. And last year he had legitimate reasons for being inconsistent, right up to the point where he was playing a different position. And by the way, the way Ryan Clark has played for us since coming to town in 2006, I'd describe him as quite the opposite as you did: consistent, not at all mediocre, and worthy of a first round draft pick. That will probably raise some eyebrows of people who think anything less than a perennial Pro Bowler is not worth a first rounder, but that's the point I'm making with Timmons. Look around the league and what everyone else gets out of the first round, year in and year out. You usually have to be a terrible team in order to be in position to get a game-breaker, and half the time those guys are busts. Then half the time the guys towards the end of the round are busts too, or close to it. We've been picking mostly at the end of the round forever, and still haven't missed since Colbert took over. If we came out with someone as good as Clark or Timmons every year, we'd be doing great. And we have, and we are. But people see that big #15 and expect whoever they get to be twice as good as who we normally get, in the 30s. That's just not practical. As someone chosen largely on athleticism, at a young age, and a position change or two, Timmons had a lot of "bust potential." He's definitely the one I was most unsure about at the time of drafting. We are lucky he is as good as he is and I don't know why fans don't embrace it the way the team clearly has. Oh wait, yes I do, because you highlighted it for me. Superstar expectations. That's irrelevant on the field.

 

You might not be able to label him a bust,not yet anyway but the tag "soft" may be gaining speed. A man that size should be steamrolling any RB that stands in his way and that is a fact,take it anyway you would like.

 

I agree with you on this. (See my thread MONEY MEN WOODLEY & TIMMONS). I stated that both of them have not produced for the amount of money they were payed. They owe the Steelers organization and the fans. They wer payed like superstars but have not lived up to it. Quite frankly, I am tired of the sorry efoorts and play of both of them, not to mention thaat the back-ups are no better.

 

Timmons contributes and fits into the Steeler's defense. Seems that Timmons does things that don't always show up on the stat sheets. Timmons makes plays that show up on the stat sheet. He pressures QB's at times (Not sure why he wasn't able to run down Peyton Manning. Manning did have a 5 yard head start) It's understandable that he didn't have as good a season in 2011 as 2010 with the way he had to change positions. Seems that people expect Timmons to make big plays every game. Outside of QB's, very few players in the NFL make big plays every game. I think that some fans set the expectations of Timmons so high that he will never be an adequate player in those fans minds.

 

timmons is a good LB. 2 years ago he was at the top of the league in tackles.

last year i wondered what happened to him early in the year up to about half way, then they put him back at his normal spot and he finished the year strong. it was like two different players for some reason.

this year as far as the first game, i again was thinking, where is timmons?

he is not quite the hit the line run stuffer that we got used to over the years, but they are doing alot of different things with timmons in this defense , so i'm not sure if his abilities or the scheme is taking him out of position more than it used to.

a week ago he was playing with spence and building some different coverages and dynamics to use this year on defense. i can't imagine in a weeks time with a gameplan to be installed with denver that , what we worked on in preseason with him and spence can be redone with foote and timmons.

i also seem to think it's not just timmons that has taken a step back but woodley is concerning me too.

another thing to remember, in practice against our O-line, these guys could look like world beaters and we don't realize our o-line is as bad as they are and when we get against real lines they just don't preform to that level.

i like timmons, i just think they need to put him in situations to succeed. not having spence in these packages changes how we use him. maybe just maybe they need to go back to how we used to use him.