When do we admit...

Idk. I actually find this thread informative and interesting.

 

I think the zone blitz is still effective. I've seen a few times we had players run free to the quarterback. I also think we need to use some of the zone blitzing we used in the 90s. Some one needs to dust off that playbook.

I would move heyward inside to replace McCullers and draft or sign a free agent to play DE/OLB that can rush the passer. I don't think Heyward has the pass rushing moves on the outside to be effective. He's better inside. IMO

 

All Defenses are hybrid these days. Personnel packages vary widely. Outside of glaring secondary needs, the only other spot on the entire roster I'd really like improved is NT. The Mc boys are okay but neither is good enough to be starting. That said, we'd be even worse on the inside trying to run a true 4-3. Shazier doesn't really fit anywhere in a 4-3 either. We're a 3-4 base and that's not changing.

 

In the hypothetical lineup I proposed, I have Heyward in the same 5Tech spot he plays today... where he has 14.5 sacks over the last 2 seasons.

But as I've said. You don;t do "one" thing with guys like Heyward, Tuitt, and Shazier. They can play various fronts and roles... and should. I was just giving one formational example of how I think we can use 4-3 fronts... since we already use a ton of 2-4 fronts

 

We are NOT a 3-4 base. We play Nickel as our base defense.

It already changed. Catch up. It's been 2 years.

There's actually facts that discredit your belief that we'd be worse against the run in nickel. see: http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/0...nging-run-defense-by-relying-on-sub-packages/

Not sure why you would think Shazier doesn't fit anywhere in a 4-3. Check out this guy named Derrick Brooks.

 

last i saw zumwalt was still on our IR list. as far as timmons goes, this season may have been his worst to date. watching the times when we were getting gashed in the run game timmons wasn't the same player as in the past. it's either turf toe still bothering him or from what i'm seeing the hybrid defense giving up those runs. this is where timmons is struggling. o-linemen are taking him out of plays and it starts with no d-linemen eating those blocks. he's taking false steps and getting taken out of running lanes where before he didn't have to deal as much with o-linemen. i've seen it time and time again in this hybrid defense since last year.

 

Hmmmm his speed and agility measurements at the combine were very good. He looked very good on the Edge at the Senior Bowl. Given that he played most inside at Miami, and that we've had very little time to view his pro game, I'm wondering why you think he's limited in speed/agility.

I'd argue essentially the complete opposite of you. That he has a good solid foundation of speed and agility. But lacks polish, as he is basically played 3 different positions in the last 18 months.

 

Fine, nickel is the base. I'm talking about how we approach the front 7. Our drafting (and signing Moats) look like we still prefer a 3-4 front. Who are the two DTs in our 4 man line?

I'm familiar with Derrick Brooks. Thanks. Shazier isn't him.

 

Zumwalt is on our IR because he was waived with injury designation. He gets his money. He's not under contract. You can forget about him.

I disagree strongly with the Timmons assessment. He's on the other side of the career curve, and no doubt we will begin to see slippage. But I am not seeing him getting eaten up by uncovered OL. Not at all. I see his struggles in coverage, his range is slipping. And they've begun taking him off the field in obvious 3rd long passing situations (something that was unheard of at the beginning of the year).

We improved against the run this year. Significantly.

 

i'd say tuitt and heyward. both have played inside and outside in 4 man fronts. add dupree and chickillo as DE's and shazier, timmons and spence as the 3 LB'ers and you could run a very nice version of the 4-3 when you want.

 

Tuitt and Heyward are the 2 DTs

I think the drafting of Dupree (over Shane Ray) is definitely a nod to how our scheme up front continues to augment and change. Dupree has the size to put his hand in the dirt. Ray is much more of the tweener athletic 34 OLB. Ray was the more developed prospect. But they took Dupree. Dupree played 51% of the snaps as a rookie. How often do you think he was dropping in to coverage? How often was he playing from that Nickel front? The change is happening.

Are you familiar with the Weakside LBer position, it's role/responsibilities in a 43 Defense? I'd like to understand why you think Shazier can't play that role.

 

Yup.

Chick's unusually high agility numbers combined with his size was the sole reason why he caught my eye pre-draft last year. He's a good canvas for Porter to work with.

 

Agreed. Although I would throw Jarvis name in there. I think his value could be resurrected as a Strong Side LBer in a 4-3. Spence is too small for that spot IMO.

 

mostly because they ran less against us. we are still giving up near 4 yards a carry in our hybrid. teams gashed us at times this year and quit running it for some reason during those games. the last few games we did improve some but even denver in the second half ran effectively on us. stats can say all kinds of things. as for timmons we will have to agree to disagree.

 

Well we all know why that is...

The fact remains, we've improved significantly against the run. And we remain very effective in stopping in out of Nickel. (again i am arguing for more 4-3 fronts, that relate better to our nickel than our 34)

 

against specific teams we didn't fair as well in the run game. overall yes it can be said we did better but thats not really accurate. oakland, baltimore, sf, sd, kc, and a couple of others had big running games against us. when you factor in cleve twice being abysmal and a couple of others such as cinci limiting their run games against us the per carry average looks better but in certain games we actually stunk against the run. so it's a little misleading that we were better.

 

It's not misleading. It IS accurate. Every year teams play schedules with similar differences. Your perception and the facts are in conflict.

%1st down/% of runs against resulting in a 1st down
2015: 2nd (18.6%)
2014: 25th (23.8%)

# of 20+ yard runs against
2015: 5th (6)
2014: 21st (11)

# of Rushing TD against
2015: 2nd (6)
2014: 8th (9)

Rush Yards Per Attempt Against
2015: 6th (3.8)
2014: 25th (4.4)

 

Well, I appreciate your thoughts. That would be a small front and there are different techniques involved - not sure what these guys would do in different spots. Shazier is very talented. I worry about his size and ability to stay healthy. When it was clear Jones wasn't a pass rusher, I thought about flipping him inside and Shaz outside to use his speed. The coaches didn't agree, I guess.

Shaz - Timmons - Moats :: (Spence - Williams - Chick)
Jones - Heyward - Tuitt - Dupree :: (Harrison - McLendon - McCullers - Walton)

We can use the two Cleveland games to experiment.

 

Tuitt and Heyward have been the 2 DTs in our nickel front all year. We've already seen them in these roles/spots.

There's no need to worry about Shazier's size in a 43 Weakside LBer role. He's bigger than Derrick Brooks. Lavontae David is considered one of the better WILL's in the league. He's 6'1" 233lbs. Again basically the same size as Shazier,

Shazier's injury history is definitely a concern. But it's a concern regardless of scheme/position.

I would change your lineup slightly.... to achieve the same goal. I would put Jarvis Jones where you have Moats. In the SAM role, keeping Shazier in the WILL, Timmons in the MIKE.

i would look to the draft and free agency to get another Edge DE (Jason Jones is a free agent and would serve as a short term solution).

 

SF- 4.75 yards per carry
cin.- 3.8
st.l- 3.94
balt.- 4.89
kc- 4.75
cin.- 3.82
oak.- 5.56
sea.- 3.7
cin.- 4
den.- 4.2
clev.- 3.7

it's not perception. 4.28 yards per carry in these 11 games. thats not very good. sure we had games that we did very well in and it brings these totals down. tuitt over cam thomas last year makes a difference. shazier being healthier makes a difference over last year too, but these are not great numbers by any means. thats what i am saying. we played alot of the hybrid last year too. rankings don't tell the whole story always.

 

I think if get a solid defensive front rotation those numbers will go down. In 2005 we had Smith, Hampton, von oelhoffen upfront. Behind them was Travis Kirsche, Chris Hoke and Brett Kiesel. Two out of the three reserves started or became a starter.

 

One of the best 3-4 lines ever and all it cost us was a 1st rounder and some spare change. Amazing.

 

Silly.

Not only is it perception. It's bad perception.

San Fran
RBs against Steelers Run Defense
Carlos Hyde 3.3
Mike Davis 2.0
Jarryd Hayne 1.5

Baltimore
Yup, they gashed us. Tuitt got owned all game by one of the best guards in football. Shazier also missed the game. Also no Ben (Yes, it's a factor)

KC
West with one 36 yard run (Already identified how we are nearly the best in the league at preventing these types of runs), otherwise averaged 3.5 per. This highlights how your approach misses the big picture.... by a long shot.

Oak
Yup once again, Murray had one big 44 yard run (2nd play of game). Also let's not forget Will Allen's donkey tackle attempt against a RB with like no carries on the season (19 yard TD).


CIN 4.0
You really want to highlight a game where a team rushed 16 times for 64 yards? Do I care if Bernard rips off an 18 yard run in the 4th quarter when we have a 16 point lead? No, they spent 5 minutes of timeclock capital and got 3 points off the drive, leaving less than 10 minutes in the game and still down 2 TDs... with their backup QB.

Den
An Emmanuel Sanders end around for 24 yards, again skews the data...
Hillman 3.4
Anderson 3.5

Sorry... It's still a losing argument

 

I think this is the big problem. People compare the present to one of the greatest run stopping fronts in NFL history. It's silly. We have a very good defensive line by present day NFL standards. We were very good against the run this year. There's no disappointment in being one of the few very good run stopping defenses in the NFL. We don't need to compare to All Decade Teams.

 

The standard is the standard. We just don't settle for "just being". Just like every season is a disappointment if we don't reach the super bowl. Steeler Nation has been spoiled and we expect greatness. That defense I mentioned was compared to the "Steel Curtain" and every defense we will ever have will be held to that 2005 team and before.