When do we admit...

... that we are becoming a 4-3/Nickel Defense? I hope we do it before this draft. It's either really happening or should be happening.

Our best front 7 pass rushers, are both down linemen. And they dominate in single gap situations.

We play Nickel close to 60% of the time. It's our defacto BASE defense. We cannot pretend to still be a 34 team in this draft. NT? forget about it. 34 OLB, GOD NO!

The bottom line is very very simple. We need to stop emphasizing 34 OLBs. If we are going Nickel so often that we aren't using a 3/4 front against passing formations/downs, then why are we drafting/grooming 34 OLBs who have to play 43 End out of Nickel? It's stupid. On passing downs we are playing them essentially "out of position".

Let's start drafting/adding 43 DEs. I wouldn't touch a 34 OLB/Tweener type that we usually target, in this draft.

And this goes for corners too. If we are playing THREE of them out of our base defense, then we need to begin to value them differently.

McClendon is a good football player. Underrated even. Don't Pay Him.
James Harrison is a legend. Get rid of him.
Jarvis Jones... don't get me started


We need 4-3 front line players. Depth at DT, and DEs that can disrupt and bend the edge. I could see Dupree making the conversion.

Our LBers are perfectly fine making this transition, I could even see Jarvis remaining valuable in a SLB role. Timmons in the middle. Shazier as a Brooks style WLB. Shazier could move to the middle at some point.

 

I think we are practically there already, I think all we would need is some solid depth on the interior Dline to rotate in, and maybe a a Demarcus Ware type taller outside pass rusher...

Something about the middle of our defense is not working right now, we have not been able to make timely run stops up the middle. With all the 1st round talent in the middle of that defense it make no sense.

 

We used to have a nose that would stand up 2 blockers.

 

Mclendon isn't bad, but it would be great if we had 2 or 3 Mclendons on this team. Right now not so much.

 

Nose is a dying breed. We defend the run just as well out of nickel.

I agree, we are only a few personnel moves away.

But I don't think the moves are all that "big" in terms of causing disruption to what we are already doing. We already play a majority of snaps out of nickel alignments. All I want is to add personnel that FITS what we are already doing.

I think Heyward and Tuitt are plenty good enough to remain versatile and allow us to be multiple up front (3 Tech, 5 Tech, 0 Tech). I think that is one area where we should remain scheme versatile. I don't want to pigeon hole them into 1 alilgnment. BUT, I do believe that we are already placing our OLBs in 43 DE scenarios enough, that we should begin to build around traditional 43DEs for our pash rush needs. We can push Shazier and Jones in traditional 43 OLB roles for their coverage/tackle skills.

Jarvis Jones cannot hack it as a pass rusher. That debate is settled. Given Harrison's age, and Moat's pure backup ability... (Chickillo shoutout) we are going to be looking for an Edge Rusher in this draft. I really hope we look at a true "hand in the dirt" edge rusher, not a tweener, not a stand up, not a 34OLB.

 

Really? I think the middle of our defense (Heyward, Tuitt, Shazier, Timmons, Mitchell) is the only thing that's working

 

I don't think the term 3-4 or 4-3 even matters anymore. But what we don't need is to draft the NT of the Casey Hampton/Wolfork type anymore. We need DTs that can rush the passers. I say we still draft OLBs/tweener types because its still confusing to offensives on who is rushing and who is not. I think the 3-4 hybrid that I call is more versatile than the traditional 4-3 players. But like I mentioned before it really doesn't matter what you call the defense.

I've seen teams that have OLB, DT, NT, DE on there front 4 and have them labeled as such but we know that Ware is an OLB and so is Miller. Wolfe is a DT and not a NT.

 

Never admit to anything
That's what a boss told me once

 

I agree. It would be much more accurate to have this conversation in terms of gaps/assignments/roles.

I disagree strongly with the idea that zone blitzing still confuses Olines/offenses. The extent to which it does, is no where near the effectiveness of a 4 man "talent" based rush. Line up, beat your guy.

As I said, I am all about being hybrid/multiple. I would love to see us use more 4-3 Under fronts that still feature a 5 Tech. I think we have the personnel to do that now (In the Seattle mold)

SLB - Jarivs Jones
----DE/5Tech/2 Gap - Heyward
MLB - Timmons
----NT/1Tech/2 Gap - McCullers
----UT/3Tech/1 Gap - Tuitt
WLB - Shazier
----LEO/9 Tech/1 Gap - Dupree

 

There really isn't much difference between a 34 OLB and a 34 DE. The 34 OLB might usually be a bit smaller since they are asked to defend the pass more frequently than a 43 DE would be. Dupree is essentially a 43 DE that plays 34 OLB. So was woodley. Idc what we call it, we have the personnel for a good 34 base and a good 43 nickel. I think that's a big reason why we went after guys like Shazier and Dupree. Tuitt also. These guys are all position flexible and can really play well from different spots. It's important to be able to do both IMO.

 

Typo?

There is quite a bit of difference between the 2 (34OLB v 43DE).

9 Tech vs 6/7 Tech = Angle to the QB, Options to rush, Run responsibility
Coverage vs Run Defense = I want my edge players... playing the edge. Either getting to the passer or stopping the run. I don't want to waste them in coverage trying to "trick" the offense on where the rush is coming from. I want guys who can win at the point of attack, and thus are used at the point of attack. I want their coaching and developed focused on THOSE skills.

One could make the argument that we are really debating 2-4-5 vs 3-3-5 vs 4-2-5
Ultimately, i agree that it is less about what you CALL them, and all about HOW you play them. I want my front 4 (whether it's made up of 2 down linemen and 2 LBers, or whatever.... to RUSH THE PASSER. I want my LBers to play 4 directions. I want my CBs to be able to play Man whenever called for. And I want my safeties to have closing speed and football IQ.

We'll always have aspects of 5tech and zone blitz, and sprinking that in, rather than having it as a base is going to make it effective again. But ultimately, while we will mix coverages, fronts, etc.... remaining multiple/hybrid, I hope the heart of what we do, continues to move in the direction of Cover 2/Tampa 2/1 Gap... with cover 3/fire zone/2 gap , etc mixed in

 

Demarcus Ware is basically a 4-3 DE, as is Von Miller to a lesser extent, they just play LB on the Broncos....

I think we need a player like that to be a true hybrid, trouble is they won't invest in one at this point with Jarvis and Bud being already established.

 

Jarvis Jones is not going to have his 5th year option picked up. he is going to be playing his 4th year and the. A free agent. He might be re-signed, but it won't be as a starting edge rusher.

 

chickillo could be a guy that works on the outside of tuitt and heyward. he's that tweener size and strength of an OLB/DE hybrid. dupree isn't that small and may get bigger. don't forget zumwalt is a bigger lb too that might fit that edge type player. they could pack some more size on him. none are true DE's but big enough and fast enough. speed kills. i like the hybrid defense but we need some better ilb play. timmons takes bad angles being uncovered without a NT and that has hurt us in the run game.

 

This argument again , the Steelers are a 3/4 defense and will continue to be a 3/4 defense.

 

You should probably pay closer attention to the last two years.

It would be most accurate to call us a 2-4-5 team. Or a Nickel team. It's our base defensive package.

Steve McClendon barely played 1/3 of the snaps. When you play about 2/3 of the game without a NT, you are NOT a 3/4 team any longer.

Why do you think Lebeau is no longer here? He was too stubborn to evolve to sub package football.

 

I'm very excited to see Chickillo get a legit shot at snaps. He can challenge Jones for 3rd down snaps.

You should forget about Zumwalt. He was waived/injured. He's irrelevant, and was never an edge player.

I disagree with what you're saying about Timmons

 

Chickillo is the interesting one in this group. If he really gets a decent shot this upcoming year. He's really played as a DE his college career and was told to get bigger and engage 2 defenders at Miami. The Steelers told him to drop the pounds. He dropped the weight they told him and picked up speed/quickness, without a full offseason and still adjusting to the NFL.

How he improves this offseason will be key for him!

I'd like to see him push Jones out or actually be a viable "tweener" that can take snaps as a DE for rotational purposes. Man...can you imagine him being able to get a full offseason of conditioning and strength training in with Harrison? (Everyone of those guys that worked out with him last summer got stronger)

 

I'm not high on Chickillo, he is very limited when it comes to speed and agility. He maybe polished, but it will only get him so far.

 

What are you basing that on? College tape?

He's not polished at all, but I'm a lot more sold on his ability to get the "bend" on the edge rush than I am for Jones. Jones stenosis is going to prevent him from having that elite "bend" that you so often saw with Harrison. EDIT: Although he's gotten better and he looks like the time with Harrison helped his strength.

I'd say his speed picked up after he dropped about 30 pounds before camp. That had to affect his conditioning as well. He had gotten up to 284 lbs! I'm hopeful we'll see something out of him with a full off-season of NFL level conditioning and advise.


From Joey Porter's transcript about him:

http://www.steelers.com/news/articl...hickillo/418a0a0f-7181-4e9f-b1fc-f768a9e5d8f0

Did he drop into coverage at all in college?
No but we’re trying to go forward. We’re not asking if he can drop back in coverage. If we have a guy that’s going to come in and get sacks for us, we’ll take that. We have enough outside linebackers. There are certain situations we want to play him in. If we want to play him in rush downs, we’ll play him in rush downs. We’re going to find out his strengths instead of focusing on his weaknesses.


Re: Playing him in the nickel package:
I think he’s a big enough guy to where we’ll find somewhere for him to play. The way the game is played now, everyone is trying to spread you out in these king formations where they’re putting four and five wide receivers out there on the field to where you have to meet that with having people to get to the quarterback. Now does he fit in our nickel package and we move him inside and have some speedy guys outside? That’s something I’m pretty sure we’ll work with and see what he does best. I’ve seen him on tape rush from a lot of different positions inside and out. Has he stood up before? No. But it’s something that I think he can do. It’s something that won’t probably come naturally to him. But it didn’t come naturally to me when I played defensive end in college. Whenever you’re taking these type of guys, you’re already hoping on the upside. I think he’s going to be a guy that we’re willing to take the chance to see if he can do it.


He's basically saying the same thing...

 

Maybe a better word for polished is pedigree... He came from a big time program, and also a football family...it helped him flash at camp earlier than Bud Dupree did. In the end I don't think he is gonna be the guy who unseats Jarvis and gets 10+ sacks a year.

 

It really doesn't matter what set of numbers we assign to this D, without any tackling skills, we will always be average at best.

Maybe we should call it the 8 - 8 or 9 - 7 defense!

 

My first 2016 prediction: Chickillo will jump ahead of Jones on the depth chart by the time the Steelers break camp!

 

So when has Jarvis Jones had 10 sacks?